WSAZ Charleston Links
Kanawha County Radar
[click to enlarge]
Charleston WeatherCam
[click to enlarge]
I-64 Bridge Construction Cams
These cameras show the progress of the South Charleston / Dunbar I-64 bridge construction project.
Cameras provided by the WV DOT.
New Digital Radio System Goes Down for Five Hours, Raises More Concerns Save Email Print
Posted: 8:13 AM Aug 28, 2008
Last Updated: 10:58 AM Aug 28, 2008
Reporter: Mike Waterhouse
Email Address: mike.waterhouse@wsaz.com

A | A | A

UPDATE: 8/27/08 @ 4:37pm
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- A faulty wire connector is to blame for a failure in West Virginia's digital radio system last week that forced Charleston Firefighters to go back to their legacy, analog radio system.

The problem was first noticed last Wednesday (8/27) at about noon. Dave Erwin, Kanawha County's Emergency Operations Coordinator, tells WSAZ.com the cable connector caused one of the towers in Charleston to lose its connection with the rest of the statewide network, including the main control switch in Marion County. The cable, a standard Ethernet cable, and connector were factory produced.

Normally, the radios would continue to work with that tower, as it goes into "site trunking" or local mode, but Erwin says the radios used by Charleston Fire and Police were programmed to default to another tower during such a situation, which was out of range. So, Charleston Firefighters switched back to the analog system during the five-hour outage.

"I wish it didn't happen," said Erwin, who added that he felt fortunate that such a glitch occurred this early in the roll-out process.

Right now, the only agencies using the state's digital system are Charleston Fire and the traffic division of the Charleston Police Department. Erwin says no emergency radio traffic was hindered during this outage.

"This is not unusual," said Kent Carper, President of the Metro 911 Board, referring to problems associated with radio systems in general.

Carper says radio systems, analog or digital, have always been known to have trouble from time to time. He mentioned that the analog "legacy" system for Charleston Police has been having issues for the last couple days.

Nevertheless, last Wednesday's outage still has Carper looking for answers. On Monday, he sent another letter to Secretary Jim Spears in the West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety. Click here to read it (PDF)

"It is my understanding that, in this case, it was a 20-cent cable connection that disabled the entire site," wrote Carper in the letter. "While there are kinks in any new system, I am becoming more and more concerned as to the level of redundancy built into the IRP system and whether there are sufficient resources to troubleshoot problems that will occur."

Carper deems the five hours it took to get the system back online after it first went out "unacceptable."

Erwin says a state technician had to come in from Sistersville, West Virginia, where he was working on a different tower site.

Erwin, who represents Kanawha County on the WV Interoperable Working Group (IWG), says 6 or 7 technicians who work for the state maintain the equipment--and the long term plan is to have technicians in strategic places across the state in the event a tower site goes down. West Virginia State Police technicians are also supposed to be trained to be able to work on the system.

"As new agencies come on [the IRP system], we're going to find glitches," said state IRP Coordinator, Mike Todorovich.

He tells WSAZ.com his office is still investigating last Wednesday's system failure, but they're working toward preventing future incidents like Charleston experienced last week.

"We know what happened," said Todorovich. "We just need to figure out how to make sure it doesn't happen again."

Todorovich says part of such prevention includes more training for local site technicians so they can troubleshoot some problems, and creating a better point of contact so that the closest technician responds to the site.

"People's lives are represented by these things," said Todorovich. "It is our responsibility to make sure it works right."

The statewide digital radio network is a work in progress that's growing very quickly. Todorovich says it's about 40-50% complete, and they're constantly tweaking settings to optimize its functionality.

Despite reassurances from the state, not everyone is happy with the interoperable radio system.

Roger Channell of the Marion County Fire Association, sent an e-mail to the "West Virginia Firefighters" group on Yahoo.com announcing that eleven of the thirteen fire departments in Marion County voted to set the trunking system radio system on the back burner.

"Due to the lack of confidence in the system, Marion County will be working toward a non-digital high band system that we feel is more reliable."

Channell goes on to say that even though some of the digital system is already installed, use of the analog system is "strongly recommended."

"We feel the digital system may have good potential one day, but not yet," wrote Channell. "We are not willing to put live on the line for a good idea."

On the other hand, Jefferson County just completed testing on its digital radios, focusing on the concern over the effects of ambient background noise during radio transmissions. Almost all of their tests proved sucessful. Click here to read the report (PDF)



UPDATE: 7/25/08
WSAZ.com obtained a copy of a news release sent out from the West Virginia Interoperable Working Group (IWG) regarding the recent concerns over the radio system. Click here to read it (PDF)



UPDATE: 7/15/08 @ 4:17pm
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- The West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety (DMAPS) says it wants to meet with Kanawha County officials to make sure the state's digital radio system is headed in the right direction.

According to DMAPS spokesperson, Joe Thornton, the state identified the recently brought up issues years ago when it was first starting to implement the system. He said the state did extensive research to make sure the Motorola P25 digital radio system was the best solution for statewide communications.

Thornton says the state plans to follow recommendations from accredited organizations like the International Association of Fire Chiefs. It has "best practices" for digital radios listed on its website.

Even though at least $40 million has been spent on the interoperable system, Thornton says the state will alter its course if it is found the radios will not be effective.

Thornton says the state's interoperability system does have the ability to handle both day-to-day communications and statewide emergency communications, despite comments suggesting otherwise from local firefighters.

The state has been in communication with Motorola to try to resolve some of the issue reported by other agencies.

The meeting between Kanawha County leaders and Secretary Jim Spears with DMAPS has been moved from Friday to Monday. We'll keep you updated with what happens at the meeting.



UPDATE: 7/15/08 @ 1:39pm
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Metro 911 Board President Kent Carper has requested to meet face-to-face with state officials about West Virginia's Interoperability digital radio system.

WSAZ.com contacted Carper last week about concerns raised by local firefighters regarding the state's radio system -- and he says he's since reviewed the matter. The day after the story aired on WSAZ, he sent a letter to Secretary Jim Spears of the Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety and Governor Joe Manchin, asking to meet with them "about these concerns." (click on PDF link above to read the letter)

Carper would not elaborate on his exact concerns of the state system, but says he's personally looking into it.

Carper admits that Kanawha County's analog system is aging, saying he's been pushing to upgrade it for years -- especially for county firefighters who use a simplex channel system that does not allow them to talk to each other across the county.

"The system we have is like two cans and a string," said Carper.

Carper says he felt like the county had little choice in going to the state's interoperable system because the state would not provide funding for anything else.

A telephone meeting has been set up between Carper and state officials for Friday morning, but Carper says state officials aren't able to meet in person until at least July 30th.

WSAZ.com contacted the Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety, but an e-mail requesting a return phone call was not immediately answered.



ORIGINAL STORY: 7/10/08
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Reports say that the same multi-million dollar digital radio system that West Virginia is currently implementing could fail during emergency situations. One post-incident report out of Virginia claims the failure of the radios contributed to a firefighter’s death. The concerns have some in Kanawha County taking proactive measures to make sure that doesn't happen here.

Kanawha County Emergency Operations Center Coordinator, Dave Erwin, tells WSAZ.com that the county is aware of reports of radio problems in other states that use the same Motorola P25 digital system that West Virginia has in place. Those reports mostly pertain to the inability to hear radio transmissions in high-noise environments, and radios receiving "out of range" signals when inside buildings.

The national reports are making their rounds with concerned firefighters in the Kanawha Valley, although not everyone is included in the discussion. One of those not in the loop is the president of Kanawha County's Metro 911 Board. Kent Carper tells WSAZ.com he is not aware of any issues with the digital radios nationally. Still, Erwin says the 911 center is working on the issue.

Digital Radio Studies and Reports

The International Association of Fire Chiefs (IAFC) recently studied the differences between analog and digital radio systems after departments brought their concerns to the organization.

In its interim report dated May 2008, the IAFC found that analog communication was more intelligible than digital in 6 of 9 high-noise environment tests. It has come up with a "best practices" guide for users of digital radios and is working to develop audio-intelligibility standards. (read the report here)

Without a current standard in place, the IAFC came up with this desired outcome for digital radios: "Analog voice intelligibility quality or better in digital radios, particularly in those areas tested where firefighter communication is paramount to their survival."

MRT, a Mobile Radio Technology publication, reported that the Prince William County Department of Fire and Rescue in Woodbridge, Virginia, released a report that claims problems associated with the county's digital radio system contributed to the death of one of its firefighters. (read the article here)

And in Indianapolis, Indiana, TheIndyChannel.com has reported that that firefighters have questioned the safety of the their digital radio system, and have asked the county to delay their switch from analog to digital. (read the story here)

Kanawha County’s Digital Radios

Erwin says the technology in the radios that recognizes and converts a person's analog voice into a digital signal hasn't been perfected yet, but he says the state has been lobbying radio manufacturers to come up with a fix.

"I feel the manufacturers are working hard," said Erwin, who also sits on the state's Interoperable Working Group, the organization that oversees the statewide radio network.

High noise environments are common for firefighters, who often use saws, pumps, fans, and generators while working at emergency situations.

It's a matter of the radio manufacturers writing new software for the radios and then uploading it to each radio, says Erwin. One company, EF Johnson, claims to have a fix for the high-noise issue, but Erwin says he wants to see how it does in field tests.

Only three radio manufacturer's radios are currently permitted on the state's network: Motorola, EF Johnson, and Kenwood. Erwin says he's confident that once one comes out with a solution, the others will quickly follow.

He says despite these concerns from departments in other states, tests completed by the city and county show the new radios did "as good as, if not better than, the current analog system." Erwin added that the clarity of the digital radios is a significant improvement over analog.

So, on July 1, 2008, the Charleston Fire Department switched over to the digital radios. The only other agency that had been solely using this system in Kanawha County up until this point was the Charleston Police Department Traffic Division.

"The benefits of the new radios far outweighed the risk," said Erwin.

Erwin says he and the fire department were aware of the issues, but they conducted their own tests of the radios in a high-noise environment – and found that there was little difference between analog and digital.

Assistant Charleston Fire Chief Steve McClure says converting to digital has been a 5-6 year process – and all of the department’s concerns were addressed during testing. However, he said they’re able to switch back to the old system in a matter of minutes, if necessary.

“We’re still on a learning curve,” said McClure.

The radios actually work better for building penetration, according to Erwin. He said that while the analog radios had no coverage inside the Diamond Building on Capitol Street, the new radios work everywhere inside the building except in a metal elevator shaft. Similar coverage differences are seen in the state capitol complex, too, according to Erwin.

McClure also says the benefits of the new system far outweigh the cons, but he understands the concerns of others.

“Anything new is going to be met with resistance,” said McClure.

The other alleged problem with the radios is the "out of range" indicator.

Erwin says he has a workaround for Kanawha County that will ensure that emergency crews will be able to communicate with each other while at the scene of an incident. He is in the process of applying for low power licenses through the FCC to add analog mobile-to-mobile channels to each radio. This means that once crews are at the scene, the radios will not need to communicate with the tower in order to transmit or receive radio signals. Communication to and from dispatchers will still be handled through the digital system, says Erwin.

He said he's applying for 10 frequencies to be shared between police, fire, and EMS, and expects it to be rolled out within six months. The cost of each license is $700.

Erwin, however, considers this a temporary measure until all of the bugs are worked out.

He estimates the county will be fully digital within 3-5 years.

Local Firefighter Concerns

A 23-year veteran of the Sissonville Volunteer Fire Department, Tom Miller, says the digital trunked system that the state of West Virginia is rolling out was never designed for everyday use.

"It was designed for inter-agency communication during federal emergency levels three, four, or five," said Miller. "I have a problem switching over to a system not made for day-to-day operations."

Miller says there are too many unknowns and red flags raised about the digital radio system to be proceeding with further implementation.

When informed about the county's plan to use analog channels as a solution to one of the problems, he admitted it would help, but insisted that a workaround was just covering up a problem with the radios.

"I don't want to find out it doesn't work while on an emergency," said Miller.

Miller says he counts five firefighter deaths in the United States linked to digital radio problems.

"Do we want the sixth to be in Kanawha County?" said Miller. "I am greatly concerned for the safety of firefighters and emergency personnel in Kanawha County."

Why Digital is Inevitable

Erwin says two things have contributed to the start of a digital statewide radio system: 9/11 and FCC bandwidth allocations.

For 9/11, he says firefighters and police officers in New York were not able to talk to each other on the radios when two planes crashed into the World Trade Center. The new system will allow any agency anywhere in the state to communicate with any other agency anywhere else in the state.

Erwin says the FCC is mandating that radio signals take up less bandwidth, or space, by the year 2013. While analog signals are able to transmit at the new restriction, he says any other further constriction is not possible with analog -- but is possible with digital.

WV's Interoperable Radio System

Governor Joe Manchin announced the statewide radio project publicly at a news conference on December 20, 2006. The system consists of tower sites around the state that are linked together and allow any emergency personnel with a radio to contact any other agency in the state without any other special equipment. The towers are linked via microwave radio signals.

Erwin says the main server for the system is in Harrison County. This means each time any user in the state presses the talk button, their radio communicates to the central system in Harrison County, where the server assigns the radio a frequency and gives it clearance to transmit. This happens in a split second. He says there is a backup to this server in Kanawha County.

This setup is referred to as a trunk system. The concept of such a configuration has a set number of frequencies and assumes that not every agency using the system will transmit at the same time. Each agency doesn't have its own assigned, dedicated frequency like they do in the analog world. Instead, the system dynamically assigns a radio to a particular frequency every time a radio user presses the talk button.

The main benefits for agencies to move to this new system are: inter-agency communication and towers that are maintained by the state. Up until this point, each agency has had to service its own radio equipment, according to Erwin.

“It certainly benefits everyone to be able to talk to each other, especially during emergency situations,” said Joe Thornton, Deputy Secretary for the West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety.

Thornton didn’t immediately know of any mandates requiring local agencies to switch over to the state’s interoperable system. Although, he said he believes there would be no issues with day-to-day operations on the system.

"I think it is important to stress our commitment and goal of ensuring emergency situations have effective and seamless communications and an interoperable system, while not flawless, certainly assists first responders and emergency officials statewide and across state borders with the ability to communicate in crises situations," said Thornton. "Communications is critical to the success of any and all operations and we certainly have no desire to implement a system that puts anybody’s life in danger. Continued dialogue among all parties remains necessary as we move forward with the state’s interoperable efforts."

Financially, digital radios cost nearly three times more than analog. That's been one of the biggest complaints about the system, according to Erwin. He says many volunteer firefighters have purchased their own analog radios for about $800, compared to at least $2,000 for digital.

A federal grant paid for each fire department in the county to have at least one radio, says Erwin. Future grants are expected to help provide more radios to emergency responders.

[ Copyright 2008 – WSAZ.com. All Rights Reserved. ]
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Severe Weather and Breaking News Coverage

To send a news tip or submit a story idea, e-mail news@wsaz.com

More Stories
Kanawha County Fair

Charleston Landlord Gives Back to the Community

Second Bayer Explosion Victim Dies

Phase One of U.S. Route 35 Upgrade Dedicated

Stabbing Suspect Sticks Tongue Out at Victim

Hillary Clinton Stumps for W.Va. Candidate

WV Book Festival Kicks Off Saturday

Table Games Helping the Clay Center

Post Your Comments
First Name:
Location:
Enter Comments: characters left
Email (optional):
Email will not be displayed on site. For station contact purpose only.
Read Comments
Comments are posted from viewers like you and do not always reflect the views of this station.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 31, 2008 at 05:26 AM
3 is bad wont put some remarks here,WHY? who are the company that work on those towers systems. im sure its not here in wv here in logan they messup all the time almost every day.at least they could keep analog radio for backup.

Posted by: perry on Aug 30, 2008 at 09:17 PM
technicians out of state! its bs we need jobs here and the state gives them to someone from another state.this state is sick.

Posted by: First Responder on Aug 29, 2008 at 06:55 AM
I'm not in Kanawha County, however our department has these radios in several of our main trucks. We have never used them, they were a huge waste of money. Money the could have been spent for direct, and much neeed lifesaving equipment. Sure, one of the big problems at the World Trade Centers was first responders lack of communication. But there are better ways to handle this than some high tech useless system as this. I've been in the fire service for 32 years and never had any serious communication problems. Sometimes, I think the people that make the decisions on stuff like this should as some of the "old smoke eaters" their opinion before that spend the money. By the way, I was a Fire Officer for 25 years of my career, so I've been on the front line on many occation.

Posted by: Richard on Aug 29, 2008 at 12:37 AM
Kent Carper to the RESCUE!!!!

Posted by: wellwell on Aug 28, 2008 at 02:05 PM
these radios are like cell phones, no service and they are useless....i just hope someone gets this fixed soon

Posted by: me on Aug 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Yes, of course some towers go down from time to time even on analog, but Kanawha County Fire uses multiple towers (maybe 5?) so it really won't hurt if just one tower goes down on the analog system, but apparently if the tower on the digital system goes down then we are just sh*t out of luck.

Posted by: Ben on Aug 28, 2008 at 10:03 AM
There is more too this. If the state would not try to do everything it's self and let people like us do some of the work. We could help with these peoblems. CEO Lloyds Electronics

Posted by: John on Aug 21, 2008 at 01:02 PM
WSAZ should contact Charleston FD and see how the radios worked Wednesday August 20th. The radio system had a failure and all units had to use the old radios for several hours.

Posted by: Rich on Aug 15, 2008 at 03:24 AM
Kent Carper to the rescue!!!

Posted by: I can't Believe It on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:34 PM
15th Failure in Philadelphia's Motorola Digital System... "Philadelphia Police Issue Ultimatum to Motorola"

Posted by: It's Me again Margaret on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eloDbosACcs Philadelphia has voted this as "No Confidence" and making Two Officers Ride in each cruiser until the problems are GUARANTEED to be fixed.

Posted by: Me on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:30 PM
Look at all the problems in Philadelphia: http://blog.tcomeng.com Multiple links below the main article on this page.

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 1, 2008 at 05:17 AM
Looks like "Factchecker" forgot to follow his own admonition: The radios the firefighters carried into the buildings that day were identical to the ones they had brought into the trade center eight years earlier. By the department's own estimation, those radios, some of which were 15 years old, were outdated. ''There were problems with the radios at virtually every high-rise fire,'' said Deputy Chief Nicholas J. Visconti, who was the commander in Midtown Manhattan for three years. The radio problems, many officials say, are a symptom of the department's resistance to new technology. Early in 2001, the department replaced its old analog radios with a new generation that used digital technology. The new models operated on higher frequencies and were judged somewhat better at penetrating buildings, but several firefighters said they had been unable to communicate in emergencies, so the digital radios were pulled from service in March 2001. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05E7DA1E31F934A35754C0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=4

Posted by: Father of Fireman. on Jul 28, 2008 at 07:32 PM
To anonymous who posted July 13. So we go ahead with this new system and grow with it and eventually we get all the towers we need, right. That sounds good. We will let you explain at all the funerals for police and fire to their families why this happened.

Posted by: megatron on Jul 16, 2008 at 01:20 PM
now prime will never know when we strike again!!!

Posted by: jesus on Jul 16, 2008 at 01:01 PM
how will my people know when the blue mist returns if your communications systems are inadequate? peace be with you.

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 16, 2008 at 11:17 AM
My life is incomplete and meaningless unless I bow to the King and become a FOK. Is there a registration process or do I just yank down Kent's pants and kiss his behind to get in? Wait...that's probably the initiation process. Nevermind, sorry I asked. I'll just ask PJ, or Dale Petry for the answer! I'm sure they know! I'll ask PJ how to get a neat FOK bumper sticker too!

Posted by: Volunteer&Proud on Jul 16, 2008 at 10:21 AM
I am amazed by those who argue without facts. First, to the person who called the volunteers, "stupid" - you are ignorant because the FCC doesn't mandate that we have to go digital at all, we could go narrow band analog. We just have to have the capability to interface digitally for interoperability with the feds - our whole system doesn't have to be digital. Second, to the person who said analog failed at the Trade Center - WRONG!!! - it was a digital system that failed. FDNY used analog from about 10:00 a.m. on without any serious problems. Third, back to "stupid" caller, HELLO!!! - the manufacturers have been working on this for over ten (10) years and still haven't gotten the problems with interference, vocoders, and atmospheric anomalies (I realize that may be a big word for you) fixed. Now, who is the one who looks stupid - not the volunteers who checked the facts or the person who fired off without doing so...

Posted by: Factchecker on Jul 16, 2008 at 10:05 AM
TO: Anonymous who posted on 07/15/2008 @ 9:46 p.m. - If you are going to post, at least know what you are talking about. The system that failed on 9-11-2001 was a digital system - the Motorola P25 system that the FOKs are wanting to implement. The 343 firefighters couldn't communicate because one of the trunking towers was on top of the South Tower of the WTC and failed early on in the event. FDNY went digital in 1999 and got sued because they didn't properly test the system and/or listen to the complaints from front line firefighters. The IAFF and the FDNY sued because the didgital radio system had serious problems that were overlooked and ignored - "Dave Erwin'd" so to speak...

Posted by: Anonumous on Jul 16, 2008 at 08:49 AM
The old system could have easily been fixed by upgrading it. The system has had no major upgrades for a while except for maint. This is just a way for the county to control who can talk on their frequencies as could be used as punishment for fire departments across the county.

Posted by: Anonymour on Jul 16, 2008 at 08:45 AM
The problem could easily be fixed by still having analog channels to be used for day to day operations. The digital truncking frequencies could still be available to the users of the radio if need be. This would eliminate the concerns of using such a system for day to day operations but still allow agencies to interact with one an other on large scale incidents. From my understanding these radios are capable of having both programed in them.

Posted by: Roger on Jul 15, 2008 at 11:58 PM
For a few years now Marion County fire departments, EMS and police agencies have been utilizing the digital trunking system. The system was forced upon us with the understanding that it was the bread and butter of radio communications. There have been many instances where the entire system has failed, been busy (units cannot key up), and digitized (garbled). This system in its current state of operation has proven to have too many bugs and problems for it to be reliable. Although, it has some nice features and has good potential for being a good system for mass disasters. Eleven of the thirteen fire departments in Marion County have instructed the Marion County Commission that the digital system be set on the back burner and a high band frequency on the 150 system become primary for Marion County. The digital system will be used for large incidents only and will NOT be used for daily operations due to lack of confidence. We in Marion County stress to everyone, be cautious in this sys.

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 15, 2008 at 09:46 PM
How many Firefighters lives have been lost due to the analog system? Just ask the FDNY. On 9/11, radio communications in the towers was useless. If the digital radio system was used by the department, maybe there wouldn't have been 343 lost souls!

Posted by: Jason on Jul 15, 2008 at 07:33 PM
I just reviewed the letter that was written by Kanawha County President Kent Carper, I seriously wonder who these expers are that Kanawha County has. I guess when you are an FOK you are an expert in your own mind. The 911 Empire that Carper and his disciples have built fails short in almost every standard that has been established. ( worst turn over of any 911 Center in the state, failing to meet state training standards for 911 employees, the list cold go on forever ) The State Radio System has been working for several years in several Northern West Virginia Counties with little or no problmes. It is disappointing that the system as worked very well in other areas of the state and now that Kanawha County gets involved things end up going wrong. Leave it to Charleston and Kanawha County to mess up a good thing.

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 15, 2008 at 03:24 PM
Kent...have you not been listening - the issue is not with the State's interoperable radio system, it is with you and your FOK's trying to use it for day-to-day operations - something that it was never designed for. You are trying to get the State and the Feds to pay for things that the 911 fee and the County are supposed to be paying for. I am amazed at your arrogance in that you think your expertise is above and beyond NIOSH and the other independent agencies that have already reached the conclusion tha the current technology is not appropriate for on scene operations on a daily basis but best used in a broader - less mission critical - function. A quick review of the literature available on the internet resulted in articles which indicate over 1.3 billion - yes that is billion with a "b" - has been spent trying to implement these digital systems all to have failed - and you think $1 million will solve the problems and that your, "expertise" will overcome the obstacles?

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 13, 2008 at 06:22 PM
Wake up and get the story straight.... You dont have to go digital by 2013, you only have to go narrow band and stay analog. Sounds like you are upset that you did not get the radios programmed correct.

Posted by: anonymous on Jul 13, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Everybody is missing the point on this issue Fcc mandates we will be digital by 2013 it is now 2008 there is 5 years to go we are in the digital beginnings just like the switch from lowband to vhf high band everybody was resisting the change let the manufacturers work out the issues and see where we stand. The county did a bad thing when they issued these first batch of digital radios the system was not ready and there are dead spots all over the county also they issued low power hand units that are supposed to be used for for close ground support work. The volunteers out there who are complaining (hello stupid) you ought to know if your hand units don't work everywhere now what did you expect less towers better service? The state has 2 digital towers up charleston and malden mountain. We currently operate analog on 4 towers so the result could not be better. Give the state and county time to add towers and the manufacturers to work on the vocoders and the system will be fine

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 12, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Why doesn't the reporter for this story go find the firefighters in marion county and various places in the state who are complaining about this and ask them exactly how they feel about these radios since they're using them and have already shown in these comments that there is obviously a problem. I'm sure they're not scared of King Carper, Danny Jones or the FOK's( which I'm not scared or intimidated by any of them..especially the FOK's. They're just a bunch of buttkissers anyway..A little entourage the King keeps around to make himself feel important.)This effects people lives!! And it effects many more people than just residents/public service workers in Kanawha County! The poor decisions that are being made are risking lives. Doesn't that deserve to be investigated even more deeply??

Posted by: jed on Jul 12, 2008 at 10:20 AM
why pay over a thousand for one radio that could get one for $350

Posted by: RescuRev on Jul 11, 2008 at 09:54 PM
Dont risk my life and my brothers life. Why dont the Kent and FOK retitre

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 11, 2008 at 09:28 PM
I am so sick of people who only do certain things for their own ego trip or personal gain. People like Kent Carper and Dave Erwin make me sick! Honestly...if you guys read these comments PLEASE comment and tell us one thing you have done to help others! This has got to stop!!

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 11, 2008 at 05:56 PM
Bottom line is this. Regardless of whether it is working in this state or not, it works, maybe not perfectly for fire departments, but it works. Does it have the coverage yet? No. That'll take 100 more towers. Most of the failures you see in the media about digital trunked systems deal with dead spots and voice issues. The dead spots have nothing to do with digital. Motorola, EF Johnson, Kenwood, they will all gladly sell you a system that provides 100% coverage as long as you want to pay for that coverage. Problem is, most cities/states want to stay on the "cutting edge" and get a new system in place, BUT, when they see the properly designed system and it's COST, they start cutting towers and equipment here and there to bring costs down. Most of the fault lies with the cities on this matter. As for the voice quality, shame on the departments for buying a product without testing it properly first. You dont buy a car without driving it first do you?

Posted by: Chris on Jul 11, 2008 at 01:24 PM
Google "Phoenix radio report" to get the 93 page PDF on digital radios. It is a great report Their suggestion? Stay analog.

Posted by: Medicman on Jul 11, 2008 at 01:19 PM
Wow!!! Dave Erwin has fixed and/or found the solution to problems that other cities have spent millions of dollars trying to but couldn't!!! Heck Phoenix scrapped it's digital plans after spending 120 million!!! Dave needs to send out some resume's as I am sure Motorola or one of these big cities who couldn't get the systems to work will surely hire him and get him and his know it all attitude out of Kanawha County

Posted by: Ted White on Jul 11, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Digital communications are a real challenge to PROPERLY design and install. E.F. Johnson makes the ONLY digital radio on the market with an "Enhanced P25 VOCODER" This technology greatly improves digital voice quality especially in noisy environments. I recommend perspective Digital Radio Buyers to contact EF Johnson to get more information about P25 and Digital Radio products as most of the Digital Radio Systems shown in the media have been Motorola branded.

Posted by: IAFF317member on Jul 11, 2008 at 10:00 AM
has anyone mentioned to the FOKs the multimillion dollar lawsuit pending against Motorola and the City of New York over the failure of digital radios on 09/11/2001?

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 11, 2008 at 09:41 AM
There are concerns in the Charleston Police Department and the Kanawha County Sheriff's Department as well about these radios. We are already using them and have problems getting air time when we need it and with being, "out of range". No one, including myself, is willing to say anything because of Danny Jone's vendettas and King Carper's politics. This is nothing more than Danny and kent trying to use Federal money to improve radios - it is, sadly, a matter of money, not what is best for Charleston or Kanawha County. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I am not an FOK, just someone who protects the public. I just wonder who is trying to protect me.

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 11, 2008 at 09:36 AM
As a Charleston firefighter i am seriously concerned for my safety and the safety of my brothers. Granted, the didgital radios do have some advantages but there is too much evidence - even from our own union - the IAFF - that these systems have serious - not minor - problems. The failure of didgital radios was cited in last year's deaths of six firefighters in our sister city of Charleston, SC. This technology has been around for over 10 years but is still fatally flawed - see Prince William County Virginia, the Bronx NY, and Charleston SC. Dave Erwin doesn't ride the truck and doesn't have to rely on this every day for his safety. How can he say, "the benefits outweigh the problems"?

Posted by: John on Jul 11, 2008 at 09:32 AM
Steve McClure must have forgotten history in that the Motorola P25 System is the same system that failed at the WTC on 09/11/2001. People don't want to use the system because it doesn't work not because it is, "new". Volunteers don't get paid but they are not stupid. If the cities of New York, Indianapolis, Orlando, Boise, and Phoenix, plus San Mateo County California, have tried to implement such a system and failed and then switched back to analog, the what does Dave Erwin and the FOK's think they can do better than those places?

Posted by: A concerned Firefighter on Jul 11, 2008 at 08:37 AM
Thats right, listen to dave irwin. As it is he is responsible for sitting up talk groups for the current digital radio system. Not long ago the Charleston Police Department had a special event, during this special event the officers decided to communicate on a so called "CPD tac channel" while the officers were using this channel a patient report from Jefferson County was being transmited (remember these radios are state-wide) the officers talked over the patient report. That makes me feel safe that the ambulance that may be transporting one of my family members cant even give a patient update. Due to dave irwin using the same talk group as another county. Yea... he is the one I want in charge of all of this.

Posted by: Barry on Jul 11, 2008 at 12:39 AM
It is strange that Dave Erwin didn't mention that the radio system that FDNY was using when they couldn't talk was the exact same type of system that they are shoving down the throats of fire departments. In Marion County we have had MULTIPLE fires, accidents and other emergencies where we absolutely could not talk because of a lack of signal, or a "busy" beep. One incident even involved an injured firefighter, and the OIC could not request an ambulance because his transmission kept going digital. Our 9-1-1 director and deputy director have forced this system on us, when 11 out of the 13 departments have complained endlessly that it doesn't work. We are going to lose a firefighter, EMT, police officer, or a member of the public who needs our assistance if we don't stop using this system for daily operations.

Posted by: Ray on Jul 11, 2008 at 12:16 AM
Ask Prince Williams County Va about the 23 year old fireman that became disoriented in a second floor bedroom of a house fire and could not communicate with command and DIED because of these radios..IT LONG OVER DO FOR KING CARPER AND HIS F.O.K.S TO GO...can't wait til election time maybe he will get voted out and the citzens of Kanawha County will see the biggest clean out in county goverment ever..ALL THE F.O.K.s need to go.........

Posted by: Richard on Jul 11, 2008 at 12:01 AM
Kent Carper to the rescue!!!!!

Posted by: JULIO on Jul 10, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Ask Dave Erwin, Metro, and CFD what kind of problems they have had so far. Better yet ask the guys on dutey what kind of problems they have had because I know first hand we have missed calls and have had problems communicating with Metro. What if this was emergency traffic. CFD has an unqualified person installing these radios into their vehicles, its actually a captain with no certifications doing this to save money and cut cost so what are they doing at metro??? geez i wonder.

Posted by: Dale on Jul 10, 2008 at 10:36 PM
This radio system is the brainchild of Harrison County. They bought this system from Motorola years ago and now can't afford the maintenance on it. They suckered WV into buying into it and hooking it into the state's DHHR microwave system. If you dig a little further, this system which is supposed to be the answer to all of WV's radio problems, you will find that the state is already out of money to fund this project. The only thing they can do now is try to get federal grants to finish building the system out.

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 10, 2008 at 09:39 PM
Need to ask Charleston, SC. about the radio system, And there six dead firefighters

Posted by: Anonymous on Jul 10, 2008 at 07:38 PM
These radios are priced out of small volunteer department reach. You are talking several thousand dollars for one radio. All of this for a radio system everyone else in the nation is dropping like a bad habit.

Posted by: Concerned CFD on Jul 10, 2008 at 06:44 PM
I am just so disgusted that the city/county can spend this tremendous amount of money on a radio system that hasnt worked its bug out