3rd Rafting Death in One Week Occurs in WV
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Posted: 5:05 PM May 25, 2008
3rd Rafting Death in One Week Occurs in WV
Two people have died on the Cheat River in separate incidents, while one other person died on the New River.
Reporter: The Associated Press
Email Address: news@wsaz.com
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MORGANTOWN, W.Va. (AP) -- A Connecticut man is the second person to die while rafting the Cheat River this month, according to the state Division of Natural Resources.

Nicholas J. Hercun, 32, of Fairfield, Conn. was on a rafting trip with several other people guided by Cheat River Outfitters.

Officials did not immediately have more details, but say the accident occurred Saturday near part of the river commonly called the "Big Nasty" in Preston County.

Hercun's death is the state's third whitewater fatality in a week.

On May 17, New Yorker Vicki Jane Miller-Savard died while rafting on the Cheat. Three days later, Oklahoman Charles R. Brown died in a rafting accident on the New River.

Latest Comments

Posted by: Linda on Aug 6, 2009 at 03:22 PM

My husband and I were on that trip in May with Cheat River Outfitters. We are experienced rafters and did not plan the trip for the "thrill". We enjoy rafting. I am still haunted by that day and will never forget. My husband and I were in one of the rafts that flipped. I was left with two herniated discs but I do not blame that on the rafting company. I chose to go on this trip and knew the dangers involved. However, we were not aware until we had been on the river for a half hour that three of the individuals in our raft had never been rafting. This fact should be made available to all of those in the raft before the trip begins. I still have a heavy heart from that day due to the death of one of the rafters in the raft in front of us. I also thank God for the guide in our raft for if it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't be here today. He saved my life.
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Posted by: TonyB on Jul 24, 2009 at 06:57 AM

Its amazing how people forget that they are responsible for their own actions and when something bad happens , the fingers come out to blame anyone else involved. Yes raft companies should be more safety concious but, this isnt cricket we're playing. Im more suprised at how many idiots put their faith in a raft company to get them down a river (after they sign a paper saying its not the raft comp responsibility) instead of learning the skill to get themselves down.
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Posted by: Jim on Jun 1, 2008 at 09:44 PM

This comment is directed to Michelle. First, you say that you went rafting with Songer and felt safe. This may have been true, but I wish you would have spent the necessary time researcing Songer's record of customer deaths before carelessly implying that guides at another outfitter are unskilled. I have been guiding for nearly a decade on rivers throughout WV and Maryland, and can honestly say that ability often pales in comparison to the power of the water-or even blind bad luck. One example: Tim Gavin, one of the best kayakers in the region was killed on the Blackwater. If given more than 1000 characters to respond to your post, I would provide more examples of ability being trumped by luck and water. As I am running out of space, I will end with this: Please, if you weren't there and aren't a river guide, experienced paddler, or rescue professional, don't comment as if you are. In short, if you don't know what you're talking about, perhaps you should keep your mouth shut.
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The Yell: Comments for the Week of 11/1
  • Posted By: fort hood and why....: worldnet daily has posted a u tube video about a protest agreeing with the killings.its very plain on what the agenda is.not words from the conservative political voice.their agenda has been in plain sight,they dont hide it.have they got a willing partner in the white house?we know his background and upbringing.will the criminal involved be also charged with a hate crime against christians?o. has been quick to water down this atrosity.kerry,murtha,reed would have looked right at home in this video.wake up america,how many trators do we have in our midst?
  • Posted By: Concerned Citizen: I wrote once before about the daughter of superintendent of Mason County Schools being recommeded for the assistant principal's job at Hannan. I thought it was state law that they are suppose to hire the most qualified candidate. Well, she's not. She is somewhat likable, but she is not the most qualified. Any other counties have corruption like this going on? I THINK OUR CHILDREN DESERVE THE MOST QUALIFIED PEOPLE WORKING IN OUR SCHOOLS.
  • Posted By: Carla: I noticed that Huntington has decorated for Christmas already...hellloooo it is not even Thanksgiving yet and you have Veterans Day next week. Chesapeake has flags up to honor our Veterans, where are our flags? I think the city of Huntington has their priorities backwards..its embarassing.
  • Posted By: Big Earl: Hello good coal miner people of WV this is Big Earl and did any of you people watch that movie at Halloween about the Scarecrow what came to life and gave what for to a bunch of hippies who when out on the graveyard on trick or treat to bother the spirits smoking there dope and intruding into things best left alone well it reminded me of that other movie by Alferd Hitchcock on the Chiller theater used to be on Channel 3 back in the 70s about the crazy man living in the motel with his mother and swarms and swarms of birds showed up and attacked everybody nothing but birds everywhere you look and no you hippies I am not talking about that big yellow ostritch that counts everything on Sesamee Street I seen a picture of these on the TV crows and blackbirds and grinches like a bible plage of locusts looks like somebody needs a scarecrow or better aim if I had shot off that many shells there would be enough birds to make Sylvester and Morris think they had used up there 9 lives and went to cat heaven and I would still have my corn patch to.
  • Posted By: buck: So how long do we continue to be politically correct. Americans have once again died because of political correctness. Just after this incident the New York muslims proudly preached their hatred for America and love for Osama. I wonder how much more we Americans will take before we stand together against the people who loudly and clearly hate us.
  • Posted By: magnarider: they told us the child or person has to have other medical complications that would make the h1n1 more threatful and it had to be sent off to another lab cdc or something like that. my child tested positive for the flu A,I think a 5 yr old no matter the health conditions should be tested if the swab test comes back positive for a flu.I would like to know why KY isn't getting any flu vacc.City employees are only getting a hundred starting with first responders then trickeling down to sanitation, sewer maintance , water dist. if any is left. they can't even tell us where to get one.WV is having flue shots every day somewhere, where's ours?
  • Posted By: Mike: What does it do any good to put a clock running on the weather map when Tony or Chris just stand in front of it and we can't see it. Why don't they just stay out of the camera shot just long enough to let us see when things are going to happen.
  • Posted By: Concerned citizen: I hear through the grapevine that the new assistant principal at Hannan is the superintendent's daughter, and that she was NOT the most qualified applicant. Doesn't surprise me. Our children deserve better than this. Are there other counties that are have the same problem? People are hired because who they know, not what they know.
  • Posted By: Tina: To Tim Irr: What about the soldiers that have tattoos are they criminals?
  • Posted By: Doug: how dare you make that stupid comment that everyone that has a tattoo is a criminal. A person with a tattoo is no more a criminal than a person who doesn't a paper carrier. If the shoe fits where it.
  • Posted By: DISGUSTED: WHY IS KINGS DAUGHTERS NOT WILLING TO TEST FOR THE H1N1 VIRUS??? MY FAMILY WAS TOLD IT COST TOO MUCH TO TEST FOR IT AND THEY HAVE INSURANCE!!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE...DO NOT TAKE UR CHILD TO KINGS DAUGHTERS IF THEY COULD POSSIBLY HAVE THE H1N1 FLU!!!!!
  • Posted By: Bluebird: To OKAY:You would do well to read up on the history of Social Security. F.D. Roosevelt (Dem) introduced it, promising it would be voluntary, would only be used for retirement funds,etc. In 1958, a dem. congress voted to steal some of it to spend since "it could never be all used." Then L.B.Johnson (Dem.) with a dem. house and senate removed it from trust fund and put in general fund (to spend) in about 1968, I think. And our own Al Gore (dem V.P and senator) cast the tie breaking vote to start taxing S.S.annuities. And under (Dem)J.Carter, it was decided to give immigrants S.S. who had never paid into it! And now seniors are getting taxed 85% on the money they paid the government to put away for them. And Democrats are yelling Republicans want to take it away from them and you swallow it hook, line and sinker! RESEARCH! The worse part is most young people think THEY are supporting seniors like they are dogs you throw a bone. That is THEIR (seniors)money! You are paying what was stolen!
  • Posted By: Kentucky Girl: I think it is amazing how some of you always resort to stating how terrible this government is. Did any of you take government classes in school? The problem is not the government. The problem is those who are representing our voices within the government. Health reform better be addressed soon for everyone in this country. If it is not, then one day your job may shipped overseas, you may develop chronic illnesses, you may suddenly be stricken with a catastrophic illness, and due to the cost of health care, you will be expendable because you cannot afford it. There are no restraints whatsoever on the amount that can be charged by the health care industry for anything. These costs can rise as they so choose, and whether any of you want to face or not, some day hopefully you will grow old, but you may not be able to afford to stay alive.
  • Posted By: Darwin...: That we evolved from lesser species is clearly evident here on the Yell!
  • Posted By: : stupid americans (im one too so i can say that with pride)
  • Posted By: well: I live in a trailer and i live in a trailer park and im not on welfare so but i believe we need to go back to the basics if a man wont work he shouldnt eat i too am tired of working hard just to see people who wont work get things free that i struggle to pay for
  • Posted By: Ashley: To KY girl>> Those business on Wal-Street applied for the vaccine. It was the NY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS who decided who got how much of the vaccine. And you want to let these guys manage your healthcare? UNBELIEVABLE!
  • Posted By: Barbara: Why do none of our local stations show UK football and basketball games--when we were asked to send e-mails to get Time-Warner to carry MyZ it was under the promise that UK sports would be shown on it. But only one or two a season are carried while Marshall and West Virginia are shown on local stations? Why?
  • Posted By: Have A Little Faith: "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness" (author often forgotten) We often curse our infirmities, our reproaches, our persecutions, our distresses but we forget those are the things that make us stronger.
  • Posted By: unbeeeevable: just saw dianne sawyers interview with a muslim chaplain.you ll be glad to hear that it really wasnt the muslim shooters fault.he was a victim of people who was suspicious of muslims.nothing badwill be said about this man,he will always be a person who thought it was the right thing to do.its time for america to understand what we are up against.not sugar coat it with tolorance.obama news net works can malign christians and conservatives as the right thing but muslims,communist every thing unamerican is praised.remember obama refused to observe the national day of prayer.???????
  • Posted By: just wondering...: did the shooter feel free to kill american soldiers because of the presidents disrespect for the country he and mechelle are finally proud of?is there 57 states of america.is the sweet memories of the call to muslim prayer still sweet,does bowing to a muslim king but not to a christian queen indicate his upbringing,can he still speak an aramic language ,prayer for muslims,what did his school records say his religious beliefs were,are,he wont release them.farrakahn,j.wright,a domestic unrepenent terrorist are his mentors and role models.you can say this is not the right time to bring these things up.this military man could have resigned but didnt,chose to kill the infidels instead.telling.
  • Posted By: john is a....: john is a true freedom loving american.i couldnt have said it better myself.he must have been raised by honorable parent like we were,like we tried to be also.billions could be saved if the whole welfare"entitlements"were headed by only productive americans,not somePUBLIC SERVANT whose lifetime job is rewarded by numbers and control over another human being.ky girl,the only right we are entitled to is freedom.if you dont want to pay your own bills,what makes you think you re entitled to some one elses hard earned money?patriot?look up history on slavery.lincoln was republican.my ancestors fought for freedom of slaves.ignorant people say o.was elected by guilty americans who just wanted to make things right.not me,i have not one feeling of guilt.never have never will.the sooner this facist,socialist,communist administration is gone.not color of skin ,but color of their agenda.i,m a conservative not a republican,but freedom from slavery was brought about by r.party.byrd,dem,n.word.proud.
  • Posted By: Okay: Every body wondering what Bush done that was so great well here is one that none of you thought of,he stated he would fix social security and he did he didnt get his way with investing your money into a 401k type fund and that turned out to be the only thing that saved the country.By the time he left office everyone who had planned to retire had to rethink their plans and now they have to work longer so SS will have more people paying in so it wont go broke as soon as forcast see by breaking the country and wrecking the stock market he actually saved SS never mind that many people lost half of their life savings and have to work longer heck they may die now before they can afford to retire and that just means their will be more money to balance the SS coffers until the next republican gets in office and figures out a way to get your money
  • Posted By: ray: to tim irr not eveyone with tattooa are crimnals we are respectful people if you dont like us then dontlook at us
  • Posted By: Bluebird: Good post Roane Co. I am interested to see how this plays out. I don't know who is to blame for all our jobs going overseas, but we are all upset about that. I don't know about Rush because I don't listen to him. Keith makes sense to me. But when you leave God out of your posts, you make excellent sense as well. Our country is going bankrupt and we need to do more than just blame it on each others party. We need to understand how it happened and how to fix it. Who do we elect? Are there any politicians making progress? Who do we throw out? Please keep debating. What you are both saying is important. There is nothing made in the USA anymore. How can we survive that? The only business I see growing is government and the rest of us just live to serve them. Give us solutions, please.
  • Posted By: RoaneCo.: Well let's just take the Big Three for an example. Are you going to tell me that they haven't receive enormous tax breaks throughout history? What did they do with their savings? Did they invest in America? No, they being the greedy Big Business they are, took their operations to foreign countries. They, with the help of our sorry legal system, weaseled their way out of contractual obligations with hard working employees and retirees. And this is just the Big Three. Where is your Levi's made now? Where did all the steel mills go? Who fields questions regarding your phone service? But let me guess, the working class people are solely to blame for our economic crisis. I tell you what, I'll buy into tax breaks for these companies...when they are forced to keep the jobs in America.
  • Posted By: To: Re/Patriot: First of all, self described conservatives now outnumber self described liberals 40%-20%, so we are not the minority, you are; secondly, it was Southern Democrats who are widely credited with stoking the fires of secession that led to war. The Republican party was founded as an anti-slavery party. Simpleton...
  • Posted By: To John: Could not have said it better.. If you are not willing to work for it then you do not need it, why should hard working people have to pay for all you free loaders. I haved worked hard to rise above the welfare system and I am proud of it. SHAME ON PEOPLE WHO THINK IT IS OWED TO YOU.. IT IS NOT.. Americas about choices and freedom, make the choice to do something with your life.
  • Posted By: John: Why do people who are 3rd and 4th generation welfare/medicaid/disability leeches feel that they deserve the best of everything? Maybe, for once, in their miserable existance they should consider getting a job, and pulling their own weight. assistance programs were put in place to help people for a short period of time. They were never meant to be a generational support system. I don't care if one has to work 3 jobs to support themselves. That is the honorable thing to do. To be the 3rd generation welfare leech in your family is a shame, or at least it used to be. I personally am sick and tired of working while these loosers sit in the trailer in the "holler", or in the housing projects, waiting on the next check. What are these poor excuse for humans going to do when those of all income brackets say NO MORE, your free ride is over? Cut welfare programs and save a few billion a year.
  • Posted By: Re/Patriot: ...and all you ultra conservative minorities who voice yourself on here so loudly: You are the exact same types who would have been arguing to keep slavery as an institution in the Civil War.
  • Posted By: Hey Roane Co, check your "filter": Lower taxes for big business and the rich do work, because, who hires you for a job-a poor person? Allow people-any people-to keep more of the money they work for, and the ones with initiative and drive will learn to make more money, hire more people, generate more taxes, etc...it is proven fact that tax cuts increase revenues to the treasury because they stimulate investment and growth. Business cannot possibly escape the myriad of regulations designed to check and monitor their actions, unless regulators are negligent. I remember seeing Barney Frank on TV in early 2007, as Chairman of the Banking Committee, saying Freddie and Fannie were fine...wow. As for Rush, he has no power to tax you, wreck your kids future with debt, etc...greed, with other sins, cannot be overcame; but in American, with capitalism, more people have more opportunity than anywhere in the world. Our system does not guarantee equality of results, but opportunity. Each person, based on initiative, can achieve.
  • Posted By: Big Earl: Well hello again good working coal miner people of WV and there familys this is Big Earl and if any of you people have a garden with a nice field of corn in it you better watch out I seen the story it on this very news page it is just like that Alferd Hitchcock movie that used to play on the Chiller theater where the man what stayed with his mother at the creepy old motel that had all the birds that had done went crazy and attacked people in the phonebooth trying to call for help flying into the glass windows and making people scream and yell and loose there dimes well I have warned you people when these PETA types come around these animals cop a attitude this time it is the blackbirds crows and grinches bothering farmers corn fields did you see that one man who said he shot off over 300 shotgun shells and still couldn’t scare them off well I for one will tell you people that if I shot off 300 shotgun shells there would be enough birds laying around to make Morris and Sylvester think they had done cashed in there 9 lives and gone to cat heaven and I would also have my corn patch left alone to.
  • Posted By: Patriot1: The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. George Washington
  • Posted By: Paul R.: I am writing in Response to the KYs Gov. Holiday/Christmas Tree Dilemma as reported on the 12 o'clock news today (11/5/09) Around this time there are more than just one holiday being celebrated, Christmas is not the only holiday, in fact if you study the history of the season you will find that the icons and symbolism of Christmas have actually been borrowed from earlier Pre-Christian Holiday's. the Evergreen Tree that we decorate actually came from the customs of the Norse/Germanic/Scandinavian People and their "YULE" Celebrations. this all went on at least 1,000 years before Christ was said to have been born. Not everyone celebrates "Christmas" so by saying Happy Holidays or Using the term "Holiday Tree" that is being multi-cultural and recognizing everyone's holiday and customs not just one. This Time of year we have Christmas, Yule, Saturnalia, Winter Solstice, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, New Years, and also it's Universal Human Rights Month. "Happy Holidays" is respectful to all.
  • Posted By: to ky girl: did you know that tax payers dollars will be used for the slaughter of unborn babies.i dont want my tax dollars used for sadistic premeditated murder.are you willing to have that happen.you need to see who will run your so called almost free healthprogram.planned parenthood will probably be one.and if you havent investigate o.s czars,i would hope you,d be shocked.one believes animals should have a right to sue,population control by abortion,forced or voluntary,sterilization,forced or voluntary endoctrination of school children on deviant behavior,and the list goes on.complete control in these things can be accomplished with gov.control over every health decision they will force on us.you need to investigate this administrations plan for this country.2 americans were talking to a cuban refugee.they said to him,you sure are lucky to be here.he said no i was lucky to have a place to come to,where will you go for freedom when its gone?
  • Posted By: You bet, you lose...: If you notice I don't bring up Rush; I respond to people that bring him up first and are obsessed with him, and I do admit I am curious as to why a guy on the radio is so feared and loathed by so many, even the president of the US. The object is not to "moan and complain" but to educate; would you prefer the name Hussein to be used instead of Obama?
  • Posted By: RoaneCo.: Keith when I hear Rush Limbaugh speak of lower taxes, more freedoms, stronger defense and opportunity I hear lower taxes for Big Business and the rich. I hear the freedom for Big Business to ignore all rules, regulations and contractual obligations. I hear outlandish defense contracts awarded to campaign supporters. And the only opportunity I see (other than the rich becoming richer) is for the middle class to become low paid subservient labor for Big Business. I do not believe any one person is going to pull this country out of our present situation. We have ALL arrived at this point due to the greed of a FEW. How do we overcome centuries of greed Keith? Rush Limbaugh? Do you think that I am going to support a man like Rush? A man who screams that Big Business has the right to pay a CEO $40 million a year to bankrupt a company while in the same breath he accuses a working class union person of being overpaid. Sorry Keith, I don't feel Rush is some "god" like you believe.
  • Posted By: Kentucky Girl: Wall Street just gets shipment of flu vaccine? Those who are wealthy and powerful get it while the rest of us are facing shortages? We cannot even get an ample supply of the basic flu vaccine. FYI, having controls on the cost of health care does not mean looking for cheaper costs with decreased quality of care. What this means is that ALL people are entitled to the same quality of care without facing costs to the point it is unaffordable. I know for a fact that those who utilize the state-funded Medicaid suffer inhumane treatment by health care providers often. At one point in my life, I had no insurance and the treatment at this area's largest hospital was DEPLORABLE! An animal is treated better!
  • Posted By: to ky girl....: obamas plandoes not give you an option.in one of the bills if anything changed in your private insurance,the premiums change,you go to another job,i think if you change dr s.you will be automatically put on gov.insurance.that was brought out at first,i dont know if they found a way to desguise that piece of info .any thing that has 2000pages has to hide a multitude of sins they dont want you to see or understand.then your premiums or fines will be taken directly out of your bank account whether you like it or not.taxes is a good example of confiscation of your money.they will tell you what you have to pay.s for evil capitalism,who pays your salary,who paid your fathers salary ETC.im waiting for the money from your fathers pension to be distributed to me thats the right thing to do even tho i didnt earn it,it was made thru evil capitalism.and we know marxism,communism,socialism is fair.im waiting for someone else to sacrifice cause i dont want to.so long comrades.
  • Posted By: I bet: 10 will make you 100 that Keith will say the words "Rush Limbaugh", "Liberal" and "Obama" at least 20 more times before this week is over. Your keystrokes will save America Keith and you only have (3) three more years to moan and complain, dont stop now.
  • Posted By: Keith...sorry Roane Co....: My confusion, that was meant for another post. Tell me though, which one of Rush's ideas do you disagree with-Lower taxes? More freedom? Strong defense? Opportunity? I am curious. So what do you guys think about the elections? Two things I hope for-most of all the Republicans got the message to quit running RINOs like DD Scuzzaphobia in the 23rd NY race. An unknown, 3rd party guy comes from out of nowhere and loses by 3%; not a bad showing, but Republicans beware, I don't think the faithful are going to be content with the same old same ole RINOs like McCain and Lindsey Gramnesty anymore. Second-people are now paying attention to the fringe radical they elected president last year, and his policies. Two Blue states, won handily by Obama in 2008, with 20 point swing in VA and 10 in NJ, millions of voters I hope sending a message. Will Obama have Clinton's skill, and "Triangulate?" I really doubt it, he is a committed radical who doesn't like the USA. I hope this kills "health care" too
  • Posted By: to Kentucky girl: Seriously, cheaper is not better.. Have you ever been on welfare? I grew up on the medical card, and it was the biggest mess, you have to have approval for anything major ( which includes having wisdom teeth removed). I waited 2 years, to the point I had stopped eating for 3 days, then finally got "emergency" approval to have my wisdom teeth taken out.. I am thankfull that I have a choice in my healthcare now, I would never use any government program for my healthcare ever again. If they can not handle peolpe with medical cards how can they possibly handle a government run option? I also have multiple providers to choose from, so on only having BC/BS I know nothing about. But I do know we all have choices from big to small, they are ours to make, including where we live!! Even under one federal government different states offer different possibilities.Well for now anyways.
  • Posted By: Tina: Well, we've had 3 more deaths these are in KY, They are older people with underlying health problems. The kids are healthy. What are trying to do get rid of all the elderly so you can let young people run this state, whether it's OH, KY, or WV,
  • Posted By: Keith...sorry RC, that was for COT: The public option will not increase competition, because no private entity can compete with the govt., explained earlier. You will eventually end up with one option, the govt., because private companies will be out of business. Speaking to the SEIU, Obama stated his goal was the elimination of private insurance, even if it took 10 or 15 years. So where is the competition? He is simply not telling the truth about his plans. He says you can keep your private insurance, but never tells you his goal is to destroy private insurance companies. That leaves you with one provider, the govt., and look at their track record. They promise the moon and deliver nothing. "Soch-scurity" is bankrupt; Medicare is bankrupt; Medicaid is bankrupting states; where is the record of govt. performance that would give anyone confidence they can manage a takeover of our HC? It is simply not there, to trust without evidence and performance is sheer folly.
  • Posted By: thursday...: if any one goes to washington,be sure you let us know what goes on.i m sure there wont be anything on obama news.keep us,the conservatves informed.thank you.
  • Posted By: Lee: TOWN HALL MEETINGS-BAD IDEA.....Stay home so you don't spread or catch the flu. Same as keeping kids out of school so they can go to WAL-MART and spread the germs. I'm sure people are interested in information on H1N1. START A WEB SITE!!!!!!
  • Posted By: Kentucky Girl: The public option would allow those of us who are forced to utilize BC/BS the choice of another provider. Competition would elicit competitive pricing. Surely you two did not miss that part of economics. How easy it is to blame Obama for this mess. Are you kidding? This mess began years ago. You ask if I have investigated anything? I challenge you to investigate the Federal Reserve and their role in the problems facing this country. Go back to when the currency was backed by the government. Tossing around terms like liberals and conservatives is a smoke screen. The true problem here is the wealthy and the desire for power. This problem knows no political party per se. It exists within them both, so quit referring to me as a vested liberal. I am an American, and according to the history which I learned from, all Americans should be treated equally, and that my friend, has ceased to exist. Unless you are a millionaire, some day you will understand.
  • Posted By: Kentucky Girl: I have worked in the health care industry for many years. Medicare and insurance companies negotiate with providers what is acceptable. If the charge to you is 100.00, Medicare may approve 40.00. Private insurance may approve 65.00. However, if you do not have insurance 100.00 is the cost to you unless the provider is willing to accept a lower amount. Example: BCBS allowed 65.00. Your insurance pays 80%, 52.00. They can bill you the remaining 13.00. People with no insurance pay 100.00. These big pharmaceutical companies visit providers daily. They offer big bonuses for prescribing their products, vacations, dinners, and other perks. I have seen it happen routinely. All the while, the consumer is gouged with increasing prices. Unsure of your age Keith, but if you were in Kentucky, your health insurance cost could raise whatever percentage the company chose. Just a few years ago, I was paying a little over 300.00, now close to 700.00, and I pay my own way, thank you!
  • Posted By: Ashley: Kentucky girl>> Yes, in an ideal world healthcare would be much cheaper. I'm single, 25, and in good health. I pay 50% of my premium.... $300 a month!!! Which, for me, is quite expensive. However, have you read the healthcare bill? I highly doubt it, seeing as how no one has. Quite frankly, my political involvement and study has lead me to distrust our politicians at their word. So "Obama says it will make health care cheaper" is simply not good enough. Ask yourself this: when has any legislation reduced the true cost of any commodity or service??? 1913. So ask yourself this, do you really trust a government that has failed to do as promised for nearly 96 years? I just can't believe anyone to be that naive.
  • Posted By: algore: did any one see dianne sawyers interview with a.gore,the sky is falling,the earth is burning up,the oceans are going to flood the earth, minister of doom?at last someone from liberal news asked animportant question.cows polute more than many things are you going to be a vegan?this is a man who sees doom now if we dont do thing his way but guess what, hes still going to eat meat.only peons and peasants must be mandated to sacrific and coal,gas and petrolum should be done away with not his steak and lifestyle.and people still think hes credible.
  • Posted By: Big Earl: Hello again good coal miner people of WV this is the coal miners friend Big Earl and well people Election Day has done come and went it was not to much fun around here this year no hot races to bet on and no extra curricular activities either and no you hippies I am not talking about a basketball game but Charlie Daniels cousin there is nothing no more fun than a good old fashioned Boone Co. election full of picnics and slinging mud and name calling to the other bunch anyway did any of you people out there read that story on this very news channel that the people in the state of Maine is letting the longhairs vote to make there dope legal well thankfully that don’t go on around here all you have to do is tell the State Police to go down to the hardware store and watch the lightbulb rack anybody buying them funny lights is up to something in there hippie greenhouses if you people in Maine let this bunch in next thing you know the tree huggers and PETA types will be right behind them there dope plants will grow so high you will need Paul Bunyon to chop them down and that big blue steer of his to drag them down to the bonfire.
  • Posted By: No Easy Answers: Ky. Girl, you are right about the medical field raising prices to get more from Medicare. But that is only a small part of it. In today's computer world it has become easy to cheat the government out of money as well. Medicare has been billed for billions of dollars it did not owe. This will only get worse. Add more plans and there are more ways to fraud. And they have already stated that the public option would cover very few people. Yet those will be enough to cause our taxes to become so high we cannot pay. And think of all the employees that will add to government payrolls. Keep adding to that and soon there will not be enough of us taxpayers left working our tails off to support them all. It has to stop! And what will happen when you give the government the chance to withdraw from your checking account if you get in a bind and cannot afford the fees. Where will it end? I just do not trust them. They get richer-we still hurt. And pay more, and more....No easy answers...corruption.
  • Posted By: RoaneCo.: Keith how can I be "wrong about Obama" when I have not even mentioned him? Actually, I have not been pleased with some of the actions taken by President Obama. I would say the one thing he has done that I agree with was the unemployment extension. Although I feel this is only a Band Aid, atleast the working class were thrown a bone. But the man was handed a country in economic shambles and what he does with it over the course of his term has yet to be seen. Do I think President Obama can turn our country around? I doubt it. Do I think the likes of Rush Limbaugh can turn this country around? NO! Lets be honest, we do not have a government for the people anymore. Our govenment is controlled by big business, religious organizations and special interest groups. As the old question goes, what would you do if you were President? Well I would put my foot down on big business, throw all lobbyists out of Washington and pull the tax exempt status of the church.
  • Posted By: facts: ky.girl do you investigate any thing?nothing is free.some one has to pay for it.the gov.decides how much of your hard earned money you deserve to take home.the clue word is your.evidently your father has more than his pension to live on.if he is paying 800 now voluntarly the gov.will make that mandatory and maybe even more.in case people have forgotten bidens solution for retirees during the elections heres a reminder.biden said the gov.will take peoples pensions,not s.s.the money they and their company saved for a retirement fund and mandate the gov.take it and distribute it as the gov.sees fit.ifgov.health care is the right thing to do then since i didnt save for an extra pension and live on s.s.i guess you think im entitled to your fathers pension.same difference.its someone elses money.dosome investigating,dont listen to the gov.propaganda.so long comrades.
  • Posted By: Keith: Good post on the gold Gandalf. I would ask though, on matters of national defense, aren't there times when you have to spend money to defend yourself? Health care, historically, never became a "right" until the union contracts of the 1940s, when it was used as a benefit in lieu of higher wages, frozen by the govt. That change, i.e., inserting a middleman between the consumer and the provider, was the beginning of the downfall. KY Girl, My insurance is just under $600.00 per month. As for your figures, can you include a source? Specifically, the bit about "greedy HC industry raised the office visits..." It is unbelievably absurd to suggest a govt. option will increase competition. How can any private entity compete with the govt., which, as the past proves, has no accountability, no responsibility, no success stories; can print money at will to cover losses; how can any private company compete with that? They cannot. Govt.'s goal is to put private insurance out of business, O said it.
  • Posted By: J: Obama's stimulus bill was supposed to cap unemployment at 8.5 - now it's close to 10, with true unemployment (those who are no longer drawing unemployment benefits and who are not working) closer to 17 pct. The measley 3.8 pct GDP growth was gov't spending. NO PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS WERE CREATED. Cash for clunkers simply moved 4th qtr purchases to the third qtr. The 4th qtr will see a steep decline. Stocks are up - yeah, right? - except it's commodities driving up the stock market. Commodities like oil (have you been spending more at the gas pump lately), copper, gold and other finite items are hedges against inflation. Inflation? Yeah, it happens when the gov't spends money like a drunken sailor with no means to pay for it. So yeah, Obama has done plenty for our country in the last 10 months.
  • Posted By: Bluebird: No, Roane Co., I don't expect you will. And Kentucky girl, you think you are paying now, wait until you see your taxes IF the health care bill passes. Can people not understand we can't afford any more big programs? Where are we going to get all this money they are spending? And do you actually want someone sitting in an office, with no health training, deciding if you are sick enough to get the treatment you are requesting? Have you ever applied in a government office for anything? Those employees act like you are asking for money right out of THEIR pocket instead of the money YOU have paid in. This would be no different. If it would not decimate us all, I almost wish you could get what you are screaming for. And there would be so much red tape to get through you may be buried before treatment was approved. Our government is too big! Less government, more money in your pocket.
  • Posted By: Kentucky Girl: So you want to talk now about the cost of Medicare? You wonder why it has astronomical cost? Physicians, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, do I need say more. Medicare was designed to assure our seniors would have health care. Now what happened is that when physicians were charging 20.00 for a visit, Medicare was approving 12.00. Likewise were the charges in the hospitals. Therefore, the greedy health care industry could not do without that 8.00, so they raised office visits to 40.00 so Medicare would now pay 20.00. Do you see how that works? When Medicare was instituted, there should have been price control for the health care industry. There should have also been a public option for health care put into place because as long as there is no competition there will be skyrocketing premiums. Women face astronomical premiums if in childbearing age, and this changes to men when approaching the heart disease age. FAIR? Who are you kidding? If you pay 100% of your premium, what is it?
  • Posted By: Keith...Roane Co. you are one snide dude...: Actually I speak plainly with common sense; it is the way of conservatism. Bush made many mistakes, which I have written about numerous times; no need to re-hash. As for good, lets take the economy: most of his years saw unemployment <5%, which under Clinton was regarded as full employment; record low interest rates and low inflation; successful tax cuts, which spurred economic growth; and record highs in the stock market. At the end he wavered from his conservatism and regrettably caused much harm. You are wrong about Obama. Who is in charge right now? Who can affect our lives, right now? Who can help or hurt, right now? Not Bush, no matter how hard Obama cries. Carter left Reagan a huge mess; Reagan solved it. Clinton's economy was going into recession in late 2000; Bush's tax cuts revived it. Roane Co., put up or shut up. Tell us all, what is Obama doing, right now, to make anything better, even in a year's time? I will make it easy for you, just name one thing. Just one.
  • Posted By: AFT Members: Where do your dues go? I guess we don't really care until we need assistance! Shame on us. We pay over $300 dollars a year in dues and we never ask to see where it goes until its decided that our personal legal needs are unimportant to the MIGHTY Judy Hale. Well, its time to ask her WHERE the money goes...GAY RIGHTS, bribes, her outragous salary,... yes, these are some of the ways our money is spent. Who knows what we would find out if we really tried. You know the truth is that AFT-WV can refuse to help you if you are suspended or terminated. Those things aren't included on the insurance agreement. Are we really given any rights on what AFT endorsing in the political area. Its time to ask our union questions! P.S. Have you ever noticed that your county representative is overly friendly with administration. Who's to say they aren't members too. Just because they tell us we don't protect adminstrators doesn't mean its really gospel.
  • Posted By: Gandalf: Price of one ounce of gold in 1965: $35.00. Todays market price: $1084.00. Inflation? What will your dollar be worth tomorrow?
  • Posted By: Have A Little Faith: "All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
  • Posted By: Gandalf: 1965 projection for medicare in 1980; $10 billion. What effect has inflation had on these costs. Military incursions in Vietnam, Nicaragua, Bosnia, Afganistan, Iraq, and who knows where else has cost US taxpayers trillions of dollars.What kind of healthcare would we have if this money had been spent for our good instead of for the benefit of the military industrial complex?
  • Posted By: : Health care should just be the beginning,unfettered capitalism is the problem with our country.The idea that greed is alright is crazy,prices go up,wages stay the same or go lower,all in the name of bigger profit each year.We need regulations to protect us from unethical business practices,and laws that really punish persons who will do anything to get rich.Also when these people are found out every dime and possession they have should be confiscated and divided among thier victims.Yes health reform should just be the beginning.
  • Posted By: RoaneCo.: Keith will need time to confer with the all knowing God and savior... Rush Limbaugh. And I am sure he will return with an answer of such great intellect that we the common man will not be able to comprehend it.
  • Posted By: To kentucky girl: Wow!!! And you seriously think this bill will lighten the load!! What health insurance companies throw at you? Medical law suits, low income people who can just write off their hospiltal bills, people who just do not pay their medical bills, have nothing to do with medical cost I guess.. My husband and I have health insurance, and pay our medical bills, and we have family on medicare so we do know what we are talking about. THIS HEALTHCARE BILL IS NOT THE REFORM NEEDED.
  • Posted By: food for thought: Sherman Tide Rollin' ....google it ..check it out on youtube. These guys need a recored deal.If anyone knows where to get a AA playoff bracket, direct me please. Thanks
  • Posted By: Keith...to Ky Girl: That one is a softball. I do pay for my own medical insurance. Ironically, steep cuts in Medicare will be used to pay for Obamacare. Show me one govt. program that has done what it says. Lets start with Medicare-in 1965 it was projected to cost $10 Billion by 1980; instead it cost $120 Billion; today, it runs well over $400 Billion. Can we afford another big government ran program that will CREATE 111 NEW FEDERAL BUREAUCRACIES? Taxpayer, can you afford this? If this bill was about health, it would go into effect before 2013. Can you explain why it doesn't? True cost control could be accomplished by serious tort reform-Obama will never do that; interstate competition among insurance companies; again, no luck in this bill; we will end up just like every other country that has tried this-shortage of providers, rationing, govt. boards that decide who gets what, and when, just like in England; nobody has read this, nobody understands it, only a class A sucker would support it.
  • Posted By: To Kentucky Girl...: Well said, and so true! The former Canadian president stated on NPR that Obama would have to be willing to "walk thru fire" to get this health bill passed. It's all about money, you know, and the powerful lobbyists of the insurance and medical establishment holding onto what they have. Obama is about change, and people fear it...
  • Posted By: robert a: I am griping about the goverment bail-out. You know, the common everyday person who tries to hold down an honest job, go home, raise the kids, etc. , who's helping us? My spouse is recovering from open heart surgery, hernia operation, has sleep apena, bad knees, etc to name a few things wrong and we can't get any help because we make to much money (minium wage, ha! Who's going to help us with our bills? Since the taxpayers are the ones paying for these bail outs, why dont the goverment help us more with our bills. If we didn't have to pay so much in taxes, etc. we'd have money to pay our bills. Oh well. God's going to take care of all of it before long. Just wait and see.
  • Posted By: TO KEITH: Hey Keith, do me a favor will you? Please tell me what good President Bush (W) did for this country? I mean, you get on here every day and talk about how Obama has ran this country in the ground but yet, you just can't seem to be honest with yourself and admit that it was already there, thanks to Bush. The unemployment rate can still not be blamed on Obama, it was heading that way long before Obama started his run. So please, tell me...what did George W. do that was so great? Thank you.
  • Posted By: annonymous: what do you think of our preisdent who said put a tax on coke to fight obesity,why why is it always the poor man that gets the taxes what about your resturant likes mcdonalds greasey fattie foods could that be obesity problem not the poor man coke tax them they can afford it,really i guess it dosnt matter how much we are taxed they are just going to give it away without our approval and well never see any of it anyway ,we can send a rocket to the moon but in thirty years no one has figured out how fix social security, hey i got it,, put the rocket money in there mistrmy solved,,,,,,,
  • Posted By: Mike: Isn't it funny that WSAZ does a story about how restaurants in dry towns need to sell alcohol to make any money then turn around and say smoking should be banned in public places including restaurants? Smoking is bad for you but so is drinking and driving.
  • Posted By: Kentucky Girl: All of you who complain about the health bill, you have not a clue what it costs to provide your own health care. My parents are in their 80s and on Medicare. They have now had their BC/BS increased 66%. They now pay a little over $800.00 monthly which is all of my dad's retirement. My husband and I pay almost $700.00 monthly. Now you have the audacity to sit there and act like this health care bill is a bad idea. There are 2000 pages because people just exactly like you do not want equal health care for ALL. In Kentucky you have BC/BS or you do not have anything and that is why the premiums are out the roof. Public option is a must. Until you start paying for your own health care and have to pay whatever price the health insurance companies throw at you, keep your mouth shut because you know absolutely nothing about what you speak of! The way you toss your terminology around about liberals is disgusting. Equal care for ALL!!!
  • Posted By: druggie celebs: did any one see the arrest of the magistrates daughe or who ever the politican was?some one said she should go to arizona like rush limbaugh did to get rehabilitated.i got a better idea,,,why doesnt she find out how barak hussein obama rehabilitated himself from illegal weed and cocaine,i think he was proud to admit to.free speech,p.c.wsaz?
  • Posted By: j.wright agenda: worldnet daily has a video speech by jeremiah wright,about half hour in length.let him tell you in his own words what he and other people have planned for this country and who they want to emulate and make policy.he makes very plain the uselessness of the constitution.
  • Posted By: health bill: almost 2000pages in liberal so called health bill,almost 1100words like...penalty,surcharge,tax,fees,impose,require,mandate,obligation,license,regulation.if its free then why are these words in the bill?duh.
  • Posted By: Big Earl: Hello good people of WV and especially coal mining people this is Big Earl and do any of you people remember that movie Matewan where that preacher with the slicked back hair rared back and said Here me now listen to me The Prince of Darkness is upon the land and no you hippies settle down put out your dope cigarette it is not time for the Ozzy Osburne show to come on well I seen on the TV 3 news where this blue sky bunch and there rain forrest friends of the monkeys is running around with signs screaming and yelling saying the sky is falling the sky is falling the coal miners is polluting the air and killing off the people and polar bears and penguins even I know them kind of bears don’t live in no rain forrest they live in WV forests right beside the coal mines and tipples and coal miners and there is plenty of them to I say the coal miner aint no more of a threat to a bear than goldeylocks was keep an eye out people for anybody up a tree bothering a bear call the game warden.
  • Posted By: Lynn: Nova, PBS, "The Evolutionary Arc of Humans" will be broadcast at 8:00 p.m. on Tues., Nov. 9. Watch and comment.
  • Posted By: Keith...get ready for tomorrow: I do hope it will be the beginning of the way back for the country, with governor's seats up in VA and NJ and a special, non-primary house seat in 23rd NY. I hope folks like Nick Rahall and Jay are watching this closely, because if they continue their support of this newer and even worse version of "health care" I can only hope the fury of the voters come down on them so hard they won't know what hit them next year at the polls. Have you seen the tax increases in this new bill? The rationing boards are still there; the mandatory purchase requirement is still there; what a disaster. Folks, call your congressman and senators. Unemployment figures for October will be out this Friday; how bad can it get? Much worse; here is why. This joke of a "stimulus" bill that was passed, that Obama and Biden promised if passed would keep the jobless rate under 8%, have you been reading about the stupid stuff the money was wasted on? Incredible. Nothing is being done, right now, to make it better. Sad.
  • Posted By: concerned parent: To all you parents who are having partys for middle school kids and not supervising them they are having oral sex behind your back in your home!!!!! and also check their cell phones they dont need and look at the text they are sending each other!!!! time to wake up mom and dads or your little girls are going to pregnant at 12 13 or 14! by a little boy whos 12 13 or 14! its not cool to try and be your child best friend be their guide instead! GW Middle School parents!
  • Posted By: Who Knew It?: I saw someone on here complaining a while back about Welfare recipients always seem to have a cell phone. I figured this was just a typical gripe. However, I found out that if you are on government assistance, you can get a free cell phone with apprx. 70 minutes of free air time a month. Yes, taxpayers, you are providing that too. And how much are you paying for your own phone? Great country we live in now, huh?
  • Posted By: frustrated: im tired of the silly pranks as well we woke up yesterday morning to find our car windows had been smashed in and it will be a hefty penny to fix them as well
  • Posted By: geithner the tax cheat is: obamas geithner,the tax cheat is excited to anounce there will be more job losses in the private sector,asked about a tax increase,he declined to say.i think that would be a resounding yes,yes yes.a crisis too good to waste.
  • Posted By: : Do you think it is a coincidence that everytime you mention oil or gas prices on the news that gas prices in the region raise at least by 5 cents on the gallon? I dont think it is. Maybe you could find something else to talk about that doesnt thin my wallet.
  • Posted By: Charles: What is it with teens and eggs? This morning I woke and started to go get gas in my car when I saw shells and yolk all over my car! They had to have hit it with at least a dozen eggs. I tried wiping it off hoping that it would work, but it didn't. I had to go to a car wash and clean my car at 7 in the morning. Luckily none of the paint came off, so I got over it.
  • Posted By: Enough Already: How many more seasons are we going to have to suffer watching talented players at Marshall lose another game under Snyder's poor decision making. After watching the game tonight, hasn't he been around football long enough to know that prevent defense only prevents wins? He needs to be fired and we need to get someone in here who knows what it takes to win.
  • Posted By: Big Earl: Hello again good working coal miner people of WV did any of you people ever watch that show on TV the Waltons starring WV adopted son John Boy seems like every year there was some plage like out of the bible hit it was during the Great depression seems like when the cow died that was a real disaster the cow gave milk butter cheese everything but eggs none of them people ever counted on the VCR being invented now you can rewind and see that same cow every time it died they walked down the road to another farm to trade some fenceposts for another cow and there it was again well if people in this state don’t wake up real quick our cow is going to kick the bucket that cow being our cash cow the coal miner and his job and this time there aint no fancy hi definition or tin foil or rabbit ears on the TV going to bring it back to life again I seen these hippies and tree huggers from the Chunky monkey Rain Forrest crunch bunch is at it again bothering the coal mines and trying to run off jobs well good coal miners will be working hard until the cows come home and I for one am glad of it.
  • Posted By: FED UP: I would just like to tell people about another case of stupidity and child neglect in Altizer. A grown man hit his 5 year old son with a four wheeler this afternoon. This child is still in the hospital this evening. Would like to see WSAZ check into this story.
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