Pastors Talking Politics?
Pastors Talking Politics? Save Email Print
Posted: 9:14 PM Sep 8, 2008
Last Updated: 9:14 PM Sep 8, 2008
Reporter: Carrie Cline
Email Address: carrie.cline@wsaz.com

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HUNTINGTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Separation of church and state versus a pastor's right to talk politics from the pulpit -- that's a hot topic in this even hotter political season, and a national campaign is urging pastors to challenge the law.

Local pastors who have some well-defined opinions about where their boundaries start and stop shared their thoughts.

John McCain versus Barack Obama -- it's one of the most highly charged presidential campaign seasons in recent memory. Political endorsements and candidate picks are running rampant everywhere but in the church.

"Here at Calvary, I would never stand before my congregation and openly promote a candidate or tell them who to vote for," said Dr. Franklin Murphy, pastor of Calvary Missionary Baptist Church in Huntington.

But a coalition of pastors supported by a group of Christian lawyers, known as the Alliance Defense Fund, say otherwise. They're encouraging pastors across the country to challenge the laws and choose political sides on September 28. It's called Pulpit Freedom Sunday.

"This is our chance to say we've always been a part of politics and we need to have a voice to guide our country in the right direction," said Chuck Lawrence, pastor of Christ Temple Church in Huntington.

The law on this is clear. It's fine for pastors to talk political issues and educate their church on the candidates. However, the IRS prohibits churches from engaging in partisan politics, including endorsing a political candidate or party. A violation could threaten the church's tax-exempt status.

Locally, just like the national debate, it's a divisive issue. Lawrence said he will not tell his congregation how to vote; he doesn't think the IRS should be able to govern the pulpit either.

"Churches have always been a part of the process by pointing out Biblical stance and giving moral sides," Lawrence said.

Murphy expressed his opinion about Pulpit Free Sunday: "No pastor has the right to promote political anarchy from the pulpit," he said. "They’re saying to people if the government implements a law that you don't agree with, then if you get enough people to fight against it and openly ignore it, you can change the law."

And Murphy said contrary to what the Alliance Defense Fund believes, pastors have not lost their freedom of speech, but churches are preaching a different theology.

"The Dominion Theology says Christians will take over the country and will take over the world and that's against what God says in the Bible," Murphy said.

Lawrence said he will participate in Pulpit Freedom Sunday, but stop short of endorsing a candidate.

"We'll lay their voting records and other things against the backdrop of the Scripture and let people choose based on that," he said.

On Monday afternoon, a group of ministers in Ohio filed a complaint with the IRS asking them to stop Pulpit Freedom Sunday. They say it's inappropriate for lawyers to encourage ministers to break the law. They also say they worry about churches becoming extensions of political campaigns and possibly gaining political influence by supporting a winning candidate.

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Posted by: GOPOHIO on Oct 26, 2008 at 10:18 PM
How about REV. Wright and Farrakhan preaching Obama in their sermons? If these devils can do it, and not be taxed by the law, then why can't the real Christian preachers. I say preach the word of God until Jesus Christ comes back.. and pray for the blinded liberals.

Posted by: RobR on Sep 11, 2008 at 03:01 PM
A pastor using his pulpit does not violate the First Amendment, he violates Federal Law (IRS). If a church becomes a political action group to any degree, then it needs to pay taxes like other political groups. This keeps churches from being cogs in a political machine, cheapening religion, and ultimately keeps politicians from telling you how to worship. It also keeps false tax-free "churches" to exist simply for political purposes. I believe you were the one claiming you were being denied the right to worship freely somehow -- I assume you are saying the government is denying you this? (... I am so intrigued by this claim). Ergo, why "invite" the government into churches, if this is exaclty what you are afraid of.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 11, 2008 at 01:56 PM
Lori, did you know, that during the Civil War, Abe Lincoln: 1)suspended the Constitution, 2)had US Congressmen arrested, 3)had civilians tried by military tribunals instead of criminal courts, 4)frequently used passages from the Bible in his speeches, including the Gettysburg address? Perhaps you need to stop campaigning & read history books.

Posted by: MT on Sep 11, 2008 at 12:39 AM
To RobR: Personal political commentary aside, since we obviously will not agree, please explain to me how a Pastor using his pulpit to endorse political candidates is in violation of the seperation of Church and State? As a matter of law, please identify the state actor who is sponsoring the establishment of a state religion in this situation. Neither the Church nor the Pastor are agents of the government thus seperation of Church and State should not apply in this argument.

Posted by: Army Wife on Sep 10, 2008 at 05:24 PM
The Bible speaks of war and rumor of war. No body likes War, But As an American I didn't like or appreciate 911 either! It is families like mine that is sacrificing for this country and I stand behind my Husband! I don't recall where the Bible speak of abortion and saids it is OK to be used as Birth Control! My Daughter had a child when she was a young teenager and she stood up for what was right and He is not a mistake that should have been erased as if it never happened! Give life a chance and you might find the biggest Blessing you ever had.(Matthew 24:6) You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. (Luke 18:16) But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. GOD BLESS AMERICA

Posted by: Amy on Sep 10, 2008 at 04:55 PM
Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 10, 2008 at 05:43 AM This is what you said...ooooo boy id like to hear some of you guys when you stand before jesus i can hear it now oh i love you lord lol even though i stood up for people killing your babies This is what I have to say...people like you make me sick. I am a Christian, a Sunday School teacher and I am also a democrat. Everybody wants to scream about abortion. I don't believe in abortion as a form of birth control but abortion isn't our only problem. What about people dying because they can't get the healthcare they deserve because they don't have insurance. To me that's murder. What about our troops getting killed in a senseless war? That's murder. What are you going to say to Jesus on judgement day? I love you Jesus and I tried to save babies but I didn't really care about your people who were down and out or people dying in war. Vote for who you want but use some common sense! Yes Jesus knows me and I am not worried.

Posted by: Mark on Sep 10, 2008 at 04:02 PM
To all the folks espousing the intent of the founding fathers to create a government with "seperation of church and state".....please dont take things as actual you have heard from the media all of your life...do the research yourself. Get a book called "The Myth of Seperation" and read it. Instead of the letter referenced in a previous post, there are over 1000 documented letters, essays, court filings, court rulings dating back to the late 1700's from these same founding fathers mentioned, look at their actual words, and then explain to me how the liberal courts have decided to do this. Do you realize the term seperation of church and state wasnt a matter of record until mid-1900's, right? This is a modern idea. Just look at the facts, if you still believe that and can back it up with facts, I'll buy you lunch. God Bless ya.

Posted by: Peacebeuponyou on Sep 10, 2008 at 02:32 PM
Anonymous - What will you do when you kneel up on high and realize that Jesus isnt white, isnt Republican and isnt an Evangelical Christian. And last time I checked vengance and hate weren't good Christian values.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 10, 2008 at 01:41 PM
People's babies are being killed by us in Iraq. We give it a nice phrase though, "collateral damage." Do you think God is okay with innocent people being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not okay with innocent Americans? You have conflicting ideologies. You can point to many Republican-championed issues that cause death of innocent people. Why should only the well-to-do have the ability to see a doctor when they are ill? WWJD? In my belief, Jesus would want us to care for those who can't care for themselves. Now, any of us can twist this idea to favor whatever side we wish to fall on - Innocent Iraqis versus innocent babies versus innocent Americans without healthcare? WWJD?

Posted by: RobR on Sep 10, 2008 at 01:30 PM
To MT -- "prohibiting a state sponsored religion" is exactly what you are asking for! If a government erects a Jewish Star on public propery withyour tax dollars, then they are promoting Judism. Don't blame society's ills on "liberals and misguided judges" -- the US is 80% Cristian, so our ills are own fault. Example of life in "your world": I went to Catholic Church, and we were taught that all non-Catholic Cristians are basically "heathen" and won;t go to heaven -- is that what children should be taught in public school, when the Catholic Church get's "their" candidate elected through lobbying and pulpit politics? Also, what U.S. state do you live in that you are "deprived of the right to freely worship"? How are you deprived? Last I checked, you, as an individual can pray wherever you want -- public schools, government buildings, etc. My kids pray in public school. Don't get your logic twisted -- you are free -- don't ruin it.

Posted by: Lori on Sep 10, 2008 at 10:55 AM
"I see in the near future a crises approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the WAR, corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeaver to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the peple until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war." THIS is a letter from ABE LINCOLN to Colonel William F. Elkins in Nov 1864. It is a PREMONITION of our times. The Bush Administration has been Hell bent on privatising everything. They have been trying to blur the lines between seperation of church and state. John McCain continues these policies. I believe that I will be judged, not by what others do, but by what I do to help all people, wether I agree with them or not.

Posted by: Ashley on Sep 10, 2008 at 10:01 AM
I don't understand why this is even an issue. The purpose of a church is spiritual fellowship, the purpose of a pastor is spirtual leadership. I don't see how either of these things have anything to do with politics. Simply put, politics have no place in church. No member should be made to feel an outcast because they don't agree with the candidate the church supports. Furthermore, I would not attend a church that openly supported one candidate over the other. It simply gets away from the PURPOSE of a church and the aim on ministry.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 10, 2008 at 09:42 AM
I CAN SAY THAT SOME PEOPLE COME TO CHURCH AND DON'T EVEN HAVE A CLUE OF WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES, SO YES, IF THE PASTOR FEELS THE LORD IS DEALING WITH HIM TO SAY SOMETHING, THEN YES HE SHOULD! SOME PEOPLE COME AND JUST SIT, STAND, SING, SIT AGAIN, PRAY, SMILE AND SHAKE HANDS, AND LEAVE AND DON'T HAVE A CLUE~! I KNOW THAT I DON'T WANT TO STAND BEFORE THE LORD AND SAY "WELL GO THAT PASTOR OF MINE MADE ME MAD, AND I DIDN'T LIKE THAT" YOU CAN GO RIGHT ON AHEAD IF YOU WANT TO, BUT NOT ME!!

Posted by: Gospel on Sep 10, 2008 at 09:38 AM
Church is to teach the followers how to live a life of christian values and to help those in need.Pastors are to oversee the church and help any and all who need or ask for help,the Gospelis to be spread by all believers everywhere they go as for politics,moral standards or views of the pastor about who to vote for are his to voice in public/private but not in the position as a pastor from the pulpit.Why else would the pulpit be used unless he claims to know the mind/heart of God and God told him/her to use the pulpit for this purpose.Argue history or Constitution or politics all you want like it will settle anything<200 years gone and nothing settled yet>lawyers/preachers/zealots still at it.All agree no matter what else is that if love or hate is in you it will show it's self to all.

Posted by: MissingPoint on Sep 10, 2008 at 09:28 AM
The abortion debate has nothing to do with religion, thats where the separation of church and state comes in, you can't make it illegal just because its against your religion; because your religion isn't everybody's and you can't force it on them. Its about human rights and the question of at what point in development and conception does an embryo become deserving of said rights, we can't quite reach a consensus on that and its been the most dividing issue since slavery

Posted by: Kathy on Sep 10, 2008 at 08:54 AM
Politics need to be kept out of churches and schools PERIOD. THAT'S what the framers of our "democracy" had in mind. They KNEW what this would evolve into and it has. Their worst nightmare has come true. How many so-called "preachers" have been nothing more than money grabbing, liars themselves? Jim Baker? Even Oral Roberts! So they can & DO exert influence over their "flock". Why do you think they call their parishioners "flock"??? As in SHEEP following what they're told & doing so blindly! I don't need or WANT someone, ANYONE telling me what to think, say, do or believe & sure don't want some other HUMAN (they are NOT GOD despite many of them CLAIMING they are) dictating to me from the pulpit who I should vote for, or what my thoughts should be. They're nothing but mortal as we are & fallible & open to sin as much as the rest of us. GOD should be the only one leading our thoughts if we believe in Him which I do Pastors are giving THEIR views, not God's

Posted by: carl on Sep 10, 2008 at 08:24 AM
True freedom would be life with out a Government or any religion.It doesn't matter if you vote or not we are a nation based on greed.preachers and politicians both make a living from talking"telling lies".Most christian don't support war but they say I support the troops,well i have news for you if you support troops your for war.

Posted by: marlene on Sep 10, 2008 at 07:26 AM
i think to mix preaching and politics is wrong. christ did not die for us to preach poltics. it will not take anyone to heaven. the Bible says to preach the word , which means what is contain between the pages of the Bible.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 10, 2008 at 05:43 AM
ooooo boy id like to hear some of you guys when you stand before jesus i can hear it now oh i love you lord lol even though i stood up for people killing your babies, alot of you are gonna get fooled when the day comes ohhh and dont worry hes coming and knows each and every one of you.

Posted by: Scott on Sep 10, 2008 at 03:42 AM
Christians remember this saying from Jesus regarding taxes and the like: "Do unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's. Do unto God what is God's." Need I say anything more!!

Posted by: SavageHenry on Sep 10, 2008 at 12:26 AM
Most of the founding fathers were Deists, meaning they thought there was a higher being who created the Universe, set it in motion, and walked away. If churches can campaign for candidates, thats fine. Just give up your tax exempt status! Otherwise, we could destroy the churches, melt their gold and feed the poor. What a novel idea, sounds almost Christlike!!!! But alas, the rich wouldnt get into heaven then.......

Posted by: bill on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:51 PM
I agree with Larry I want from my pastor the word as it is in the Bible. I want to know what I need to do so I will go to heaven.

Posted by: MT on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:45 PM
There is a common misconception about seperation of Church and State. Liberal attorneys have twisted the idea in order to remove prayer from schools, Public Nativity Scenes, etc. Seperation of Church and State merely means "prohibiting a state sponsored religion." It was never meant to deprive democratic citizens of the right to freely worship as they as they wish. Many of our society's problems have developed since liberals and misguided judges have failed or were unwilling to understand this concept.

Posted by: Sambo on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:31 PM
I don't know what's the big deal about wheather pastors can endorse a president from the pulpit or not. Most church goers don't listen to the pastor anyway. We preach against drinking, they still drink. We preach against adultry, they still wife and husband swap. We tell them tobacco is bad for them, they still smoke and chew. We tell them to not act like heathen's, they still go to the ball fields and act like idiots. We ask them to come to church on Sundays, they stay home, mow grass and complain about their neighbors who are "bible-thumpers". Aeh, I'd rather be a "bible-thumper" than a "bar-hopper". At least my hands are in a good place!

Posted by: cindy on Sep 9, 2008 at 09:54 PM
We should have learned with Bush that person's who prey on the concerns of the christians is usually lying.. Bush's christian facade fell off the last four years.. Before you make a decision do your own research and find out the truth not what is being presented to you in a way to scare you into voting for fear of not being a good christian..

Posted by: RoaneCo. on Sep 9, 2008 at 09:33 PM
Judi you are hilarious! "Offerings to GOD", "GOD'S money"? Does your God know his money is being spent to settle sexual assault and rape cases because some catholic priest couldn't keep his hands off the alter boys? Does your God approve of these priest on T.V. begging for money just to spend it on fancy cars, jets, boats, multi-million dollar homes etc...? Tell me Judi does your God have direct deposit or does all these churchs send him a check every week. And what about these tithes, is this a weekly payment for your ticket to heaven? Well I have to pay taxes so I think the church should pay taxes and if your God is getting all this money then he should be paying taxes.

Posted by: MD on Sep 9, 2008 at 09:01 PM
I think it's a pastor's job to inform his church members to pray about which candidate they feel will best serve the needs of our nation. We must trust and rely upon our faith and prayer to bring us through these difficult times. A pastor is just a person like all of God's children. It's up to us as Christian's to follow God's word.

Posted by: jtb on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:55 PM
thats one of the big reasons the churches are going downhill sticking their noses where it dont belong i belive the church should stick to their primary purpose of saving souls instead of politicking that does nothing but cause hard feelings in the congregation jb

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:46 PM
to Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 06:27 AM not all of the founding fathers claimed to be Christians. Some were and all of them did believe in a higher being.

Posted by: Larry on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:27 PM
Preachers have the ability to influence perishners and should be very careful to stay clear of leading the congregation to one side or the other. Preach the bible and let the people vote according to the dictates of their own heart.

Posted by: JC on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:52 PM
Preachers can have the right to voice their opinions, but they should not do it as a Preacher. Just as Preachers interpret the Bible differently and lead a congregation by those interpretations, Christian followers may feel that the Preacher's opinion is right and may be swayed into voting for someone just because God believes that is the right person. There is a reason for separation of Church and State and Preachers should not use their status to influence elections. Interpret God's word and let the Christians use those teachings to decide for themselves who they feel is the right person. When politics enter Church, they are pushing God out.

Posted by: beth on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:11 PM
First of all, separation of church and state is not in our constitiution. It is an idea, not a law. Though, I do agree it is a good idea. I also think it is wise for pastors to leave their political veiws to themselves, what they preach should be Biblical, not political. Don't you think if your preaching Biblical, and if you act as Chist would, your political views would be obvious with out actually saying it? As a Christian I confess, we do a bad job of representing our Christ. Speaking our mind instead of God's Word is a dangerous thing to to, especially from the pulpit.

Posted by: Mark on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:53 PM
Of course, they should be allowed to speak on politics from the pulpit. Just like non-preachers should be allowed to speak politics from the street corner or some liberal talk show. The tax exempt status of most churches is no reason to try and muzzle a man of God from speaking and teaching the Bible and how the views and stances of the candidates will affect laws and how the current laws and the Constitution are interpreted. I, for one, pray every day for the leaders of this country and thank God for the freedoms we DO have in this country, however long they may last

Posted by: Old Teacher on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:39 PM
The problem is preachers are fallible just like you and me. You can often find great wisdom and understanding from preachers, but it is your responsibility to find the truth from Him. Remember Jesus is not a democrat or republican. He is not influenced by the politics of man, but we should be influenced in our daily lives by Him.

Posted by: J. on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:30 PM
FYI, Andrea et.al, the founding fathers were NOT in favor of this becoming a Christian nation. "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" --- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." --- James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

Posted by: J. on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:27 PM
To anonymous - actually, marriage is a civil right, not a religious institution. Marriage conveys important legal benefits and has zero to do with religion (unless you have a religious ceremony). That's why atheists and non Christians are free to marry as they please.

Posted by: Allen on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:25 PM
As a Pastor, I cherish the right to free speech. However, I believe God's call for my life is to preach God's word (the Bible) and teach people so that they can make up their own minds. But, as any other American citizen, free speech is a right. Preaching politics? No. Preaching the Bible? Yes, absolutely. And, then after examining God's word, use that to help people see how to vote their conscience. Sorry if I offend anyone.

Posted by: Wanda on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:20 PM
I think every Christian especially those who are in authority should tell their congregations what the candidates stand for. They may know something about them we don't. Better to know now than be sorry later.

Posted by: cvbear on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:01 PM
They should be able to preach if the church is not a non profit. If they discuss politics, then pay taxes on all the Church's assets and no one who donates to the church should be able to claim a charitable deduction on their taxes. So for the Christian Alliance lawyers, dig deep in you pockets. Most communities could use the property tax for social projects that the churches are not meeting.

Posted by: Pablo on Sep 9, 2008 at 04:57 PM
If churches are tax exempt, then they need to leave politics out. I know some items, such as abortion borders on church matters, but I've seen a local church here in Mason County that had put out phamplets on Al Gore and gun control. I don't know what bible they read from, but no where in my Bible does it say anything about Christians and firearms. Having said that, I have several firearms (pistols, rifles, and shotguns) and am second to none on my 2nd Admendment rights. I just don't like religion dealing in non-Christian issues.

Posted by: anon on Sep 9, 2008 at 04:55 PM
Ashley where did you get your info that pastors dont pay taxes???? that's crazy! and if a pastor wants to talk about politics from the pulpit then have at it. we should not limit what our pastors talk about. the next thing you know someone will argue that pastors shouldnt talk about hell.

Posted by: James on Sep 9, 2008 at 04:32 PM
Hey Anonymous, which liberal history textbook did you get your information from? If you are referring to Thomas Jefferson didn't sign the Constitution because he didn't want large government infringing on rights and he wasn't here when the bill of rights were written. Also, read their diaries and journals and correspondence to others you will change your mind about what kind of nation they wanted.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 04:16 PM
So it's "extensions of political campaigns" in a church, but it's free speech in a union hall. If you can't beat them, litigate them, right?

Posted by: Concerned on Sep 9, 2008 at 04:10 PM
Every church in this alliance should have a Federal Snitch with a cell phone. It is not the place of the pastor to tell their members how to vote and keep their 501 C status. They need to abide by the law.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 03:39 PM
"Separation of church & state" is not in the Constitution. That comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson some time later. But you also need to read George Washington's farewell address if Jefferson's letter predisposes your argument. These lawyers are defaming the very principles they espouse to uphold.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 03:16 PM
they do talk about tax's in some parts of the bible but people are going to church to worship there faith and worship is of the faith its call free will has nothing to do with who's running for office besides if you have gone to church long enough and know your faith political infuence takes a back seat no matter what

Posted by: Anon on Sep 9, 2008 at 03:08 PM
Churches these days are businesses. I agree. Start taxing the mega churches. They want to play in the world of worldly men. Let them pay the taxes that go with it.

Posted by: Anon on Sep 9, 2008 at 03:06 PM
Garbage like this is why I quit going to church. Christianity isn't what it used to be and I'm not sure I want to be a part of it. I guess Jehovah isn't the God of Christians anymore?

Posted by: Paul on Sep 9, 2008 at 02:51 PM
To Anonymous- America was indeed founded by bible-believing Christians and based on Christian principles. When they founded this country, the Founding Fathers envisioned a government that would promote and encourage Christianity. All but two of the first 108 universities founded in America were Christian. This includes the first, Harvard, where the student handbook listed this as Rule #1: “Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments." In 1777. Continental Congress voted to spend $300,000 to purchase bibles which were to be distributed throughout the 13 colonies! And in 1782, the United States Congress declared, “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.

Posted by: john on Sep 9, 2008 at 02:26 PM
To the idiot critizing Rev. murphy - The Civil Rights movement was not about partisan politics and Dr. King was not running on the Republican or Democratic ticket. Under stand the issue before you offer a comment.

Posted by: Amber on Sep 9, 2008 at 01:40 PM
Let him say what he wants. If you don't like what he has to say, go to another church. Problem solved.

Posted by: Shane on Sep 9, 2008 at 01:26 PM
Anonymous....where in the world did you get that misinfo? The founding fathers were devout Christians and I have countless hours and pages of research to prove it.

Posted by: Debbie on Sep 9, 2008 at 01:12 PM
Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world, when one of his apostles suggested he grab political power. I'd be careful of false prophets if I were some of you.A preacher can say anything he wants, however, it's when he condemns others for their political party that he steps over the line. Oh and Andrea, I know plenty of republicans who aren't real thrilled with all the religous affiliations with politics.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Andrea, does it personally hurt you if a gay couple down the street is allowed to file a joint income tax return or be on each others health insurance policies? You may be against abortion, but don't you think it is better for the terrified 14 year old girl to get an abortion from a doctor in a safe environement than attempting the same task with a friend and a clothes hanger?

Posted by: LP on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Ok foks...no where in the constitution does it have the words "seperation of church and state"...BUT what it does say is that the state can not interfere with the church. It does NOT say anything else about it...furthermore...it is a pastor/preachers obligation to God to preach the word of God and to teach what God has to say in the Bible about the ways of the world..and if that means politics then so be it. ALSO...i will bet the majority of you are unaware that a preacher/pastor does pay taxes and pays MORE than the majority of us because he/she is considered "self employed" by the government. The CHURCH itself is tax exempt just like a lot of other businesses. It seems to me like the ones that like to verbally bash others are the ones that get their toes stepped on. There is an old saying. "If you throw a stone into a yard of dogs the one that yelps is the one that you hit".

Posted by: Judi on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Just because churches are not taxed does not mean that the government has any right to censor what is being said in them. The money given to churches are offerings to GOD not uncle SAM!!! If uncle SAM would take better consideration of GOD and his word, ALL would prosper. Do I think that the pulpit is the proper place for politics? NO. Should free speech be allowed YES!!! Why has a lot of people forgotten the foundation in which our country founded?? Why is this so hard for some. Is it greed? Gods people do a lot of good things with the money people has given for offering. Why destroy that or make it harder for churches to help those in need. Rest assured Uncle Sam will get his tax money somewhere. My America still has freedom of speech. I want to keep it that way. However in the process leave GODS money ALONE!!

Posted by: Sinner on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:25 AM
I am amazed that people can say God would not vote for Obama. I believe McCain has stated that he has committed adultery. Palin has lied more than once (i.e. trooper gate, not telling people she was pregnant). And she may have committed adultery as well. Abortion and being gay are sins. BUT adultery and lying are sins. God said a sin is a sin. I do not find where one sin is greater than another. This is a prime example of why churches have a hard time getting people to come to church. Gods says judge ye not. God also helped the poor and sick. McCain does nothing to help the poor. He wants to tax your health insurance and let people buy there own. God forbid you have a pre existing condition that would cause you to be uninsurable. The increase in taxes paid on health insurance would be more than the health care credit. I am always amazed how people can be against abortion and do nothing for the children who have these kids. How could God vote for McCain?

Posted by: Rob66 on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Some people here (Andrea) need to take a basic American History class. Educated Cristian Republicans like myself support the Separation of Church and State -- we know the alternative. This separation exists to keep politics out of your church, not the other way around. The forefathers were smart enough to create the separation of church and state because they knew (from experience) what the alternative is, and why people fled to this country in the first place. And, for the record, The Pledge of Allegiance didn't have "so help us God" in it until 1954 when we were all scared of the "godless communists". "In God We Trust" was not on a coin until 1864 when we were at civil war. If the founding fathers wanted it on money, they would have put it there in the first place -- they put "E pluribus Unum" on money, in the true American spirit. There is no law prohibiting politics from the pulpit, you just can't do it and remain tax free - another safeguard to protect your freedoms.

Posted by: booger on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:23 AM
I don't listen to preachers or politics. Can't believe either of them.

Posted by: Shane on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:56 AM
The "separation of church and state" phrase which they invoked, and which has today become so familiar, was taken from an exchange of letters between President Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President. Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights and that the government, therefore, was to be prevented from interference with those rights. Very simply, the "fence" of the Webster letter and the "wall" of the Danbury letter were not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions. In summary, the "separation" phrase so frequently invoked today was rarely mentioned by any of the Founders; and even Jefferson's explanation of his phrase is diametrically opposed to the manner in which courts apply it today. "Separation of church and state" currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant.

Posted by: ANON on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Would Jesus himself preach politics or would he preach to save lives? Politics has no place in the pulpit.

Posted by: MCC on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:28 AM
I absolutley believe that a pastor has a morale responsibility to inform his congregation on what each canadate supports. Then it should be up to the individual to decide who they want running there country. Your convictions will stear you in the right direction. I do not vote on a certain party but on what moral values the canidate has. No i don't believe God would want Obama as president. He is not 100% pro life and homosexuality is a sin. God detests these things. They are vile to him. Dr. Franklin Murphey you owe it to your congregation to educate them on the morale values the canidates represent. Do you want a non-christian man running this country who thinks it is ok to kill babies and have sex with the same sex. I think not. You don't tell them who to vote for, but rather show them what each canidate is about and let them make there own mind up based on hopefully the moral you have preached.

Posted by: PAS on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:27 AM
FREEDOM OF SPEECH ANYWHERE FROM ANYONE!!!!

Posted by: Lori on Sep 9, 2008 at 09:36 AM
TO Andrea, Sept, 9. I HATE TO BE THE DEMOCRAT THAT BURST YOUR BUBBLE OF LIES, but here goes...In God We Trust was put on US currency on Nov. 20, 1861. One nation, UNDER GOD.. was added to the pledge of allegiance on June 14, 1954. I would like to know how you republicans use your computer. An informed electorate is a powerful electorate placing the power with the people whic is what the founding fathers intended. I am a christian, but the bible I read states in Judges.. DO NOT JUDGE LEST YE BE JUDGED.. It looks to me like YOU will be the one judged for your actions. The commandment from Jesus was for us to love. That is what changes things. Not extraditing and condeming people for their beliefs. The conservative wing of the Rep. party has taken over. If continued, it will be the downfall of this nation. OUR CREED IS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANTS and The ARTICLES OF THE CONFEDErATION. You must have slept in civics and history class.

Posted by: Aaron on Sep 9, 2008 at 09:06 AM
I think it's funny how Obama can go speak at African-American churches and that's fine. If anyone else goes to speak at a church then it's horrible and that church needs to lose it's tax exempt status. Seems a little hypocritical to me. Why is it okay for some pastors to invite politicians to speak and endorse them from the pulpit, but for others it's not okay. There's definitely a double standard here depending on 1) who the congregation is and 2) who the politician is and what they believe. Also the Constitution does not say that politics have to be separate from the church. It clearly states that the Government cannot declare an official state religion (like England). There's a big different between state religion and a pastor talking about politics. Trust me, the Founding Fathers discussed politics in the church.

Posted by: Cathy on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:44 AM
Everyone talks about our founders being clear on the separation of church and state. I wonder why they choose to leave it out of the Constitution? And as far as I know it was just mentioned in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. So, I'm asking, how do you know the founding fathers were so endeared to the principle of separation of church and state?

Posted by: Linda on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:38 AM
The intent of the founding fathers was to not have a state sponsored religion that people were forced to join such as the Church of England or Catholic Church. They never intended for pastors to be silenced. Read some history and you'll find that the Congregationalist pastors thundered their political views from the pulpits and no one thought anything of it. Joining/adhering to any religion is not forced on anyone in this country and that is the intention of that part of the constitution. You don't like what a church/minister says? They have the freedom of speak to say whatever they want just as you have the freedom to say what you think about it.

Posted by: Kelli on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:32 AM
If you actually READ the Constitution, then you may be surprised. NOWHERE in it does it declare a separation of Church and State. If we can elect and praise a president, ie Bill Clinton, who openly committed adultery and lied under oath, then why would it be such a big deal to elect a president who pledges faith in God? There is absolutely no contradiction in faith in politics. The Bible speaks fervently of following the laws. People who profess the "Separation of Church and State" are usually the first to bring any connection between them to the forefront.

Posted by: Jay on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:28 AM
The seperation of church and state is vastly misunderstood. I'm pleased this story clarified the issue. In this horrible age of supposed convenience and "one-stop shopping" I suppose spiritual counsel re: political issues may seem fine but I find it ghastly divisive and wholly unnecessary in a place designed for worship and spiritual counsel. Ministers/Pastors/Rabbis or church leaders semantics aside-- should instead provide counsel about how to practically and actually make a good moral or spiritual decision--how to meditate, pray and properly use spiritual materials (bible, etc.) to rectify the heart w/ the belly-button. Poor decision making is at the root of many ailments in church, politics and society. Instead of preaching about candidates--which church used to be a political information outlet--do your job and focus on practical spiritual decision-making. Creating and producing better church/faith members would serve all and serve all purposes in question.

Posted by: Jeff on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:27 AM
To Andrea: The founders did not want "In God we trust" or "One nation under God" If you knew history, then you would know that those slogans came about in the 1950's derived from fear of communists and intolerance of Atheists. Religion thrives when separate from Government control....

Posted by: Elna on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:26 AM
And yet another reason I do not attend church in West Virginia. If ministers tell people how to vote..then we can pray in school!!! My religion, my politics, my business!! The groups of people here are too easily led!

Posted by: Joe on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:54 AM
How does Obama's church/black panther meetings qualify for tax exempt status?

Posted by: James on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:46 AM
Margie, the purpose of the church is to GO OUT and win souls. The purpose of the services on Sundays and midweek is to train Christians. The issues in politics today are found in the Bible. Welfare--the Bible says if you don't work you don't eat (2 Thess. 3:10). Capitalism--do your own work and work hard with out an overseer or a ruler (Proverbs 6). Private enterprise. Socialism and Communism is not Biblical which says to do your own work. Although the terms are not the same the principles against abortion and homosexuals IS in the Bible. There are many other principles but finally the principle of Individual sole liberty which is that NO MAN has the right to infringe upon the THE RIGHT to worship of another. If a preacher wants to preach politics that is his right. If you don't like that go to another church that meets your needs (which waters down the Gospel) or don't go at all. God wants us to preach against things that are against His Word and point them out-Romans 16:17

Posted by: James on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:23 AM
Apparently many people don't get it. The Constitution guarantees the right to religious freedom and it doesn't matter what your job is. Of course you would not know that because the Bible and prayer was taken out of schools in the 1960s against 187 years of COURT RULINGS saying that the Bible should be taught in schools. And of course several who have already written forget that the term "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution and in 1963 was misinterpreted by the Supreme Court which took the Bible and Prayer out of school. Our country was founded on Biblical principles and the principles of this country are grounded and rooted in the same principles of the Bible. The abolition of slavery, taxation without representation, and the inalienable rights are God given. God established government to rule over us because without laws there would be anarchy. Benjamin Franklin said it best, "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it."

Posted by: anon on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:13 AM
Freedom of speech people! Take away that and you might as well throw your rights away too. What about gun control? Want those rights taken too? I do not think pastors should talk politics as I am a Christian too, however, they have a right to speak just as anyone else does.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 06:27 AM
Hey Andrea, while it's true that "In God we Trust" is written on our currency, you may be interested to know that the founding fathers who wrote the Constitution were not Christians.

Posted by: Isaac on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:50 AM
No one reads there bible anymore in search of God's directions !! Now people read it to pull what they want out of it to support there own lifestyles. It kills me that preachers want to get involved in a world God said is controled by Satan and that would end up being destroyed. Remember ? Had it not been for God stepping in to destroy the world even the very elect would have fallen from Grace! The bibles main theme is man needs God to rule him for we can not do it ourself. That is why we have been allowed to continue since the fall of man thru Adam. God is helping us realize we need him,for a church to get involved in any kind of politics is saying God is not in control. When God said be no part of this world for it was to be detroyed that means "no part" It also means when it is going to fail,why else would he destroy it-Satan is running this show so you wanna be's can vote all you want but your voting for a system God said is doomed to failure!!!!!!!

Posted by: Wv Hillbilly on Sep 9, 2008 at 03:29 AM
NO POLITICS FROM THE PULLPIT I mean c'mon people God and politics r 2 contradictions n terms, we all know that, yes if the pastor wants 2 express his opinion then hey its his right BUT not from behind there NO WAYPastors r n a position of power n a church it would corrupt the church 2 b involved n any manner of politics, and did any1 think that this maybe a way 4 the govt. 2 get the churches 2 pay taxes as well they should I mean they r still n this country and were it not 4 this countrys freedoms they would all b practicing 1 religion if any at all so yes they should have 2 pay taxes 2 keep it go'n just like the rest of us. If u wanna see what non seperation of a church from govt. is go 2 this link and look at what China and MANY other countries do 2 "non sanctioned churches" www.persecution.com that'll take u 2 VOM read all about it. Voice Of the Martyrs

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 at 02:30 AM
i do agree with seperation of church and state. one being like california and massachusetts telling people gay people can get married. Is not getting married a religious rite? and not a state right?

Posted by: Heather on Sep 9, 2008 at 01:16 AM
I agree with those of you who think the "mega churches" need taxed because they do need to be.. not the mom and pop churches with 15 members that have been going for generations, but the ones with 5,000 members and make over $100,000 a month.

Posted by: Andrea on Sep 9, 2008 at 01:15 AM
It's funny how you Democrats say to keep church and state separate because that's how the founding fathers wanted it but the founding fathers also wanted IN GOD WE TRUST in the pledge, the wanted it on money, prayer in schools and they wanted Ten Commandments in courthouses but YOU want to do away with it. Your going against what the founding fathers said must be, so why can't he? I don't think the preacher should preach politics but I do think he needs to remind his congregation of what God says in the Bible of how we should live, he needs to preach morals. Obama is not who God would vote for! Why would he? God says abortion is sin and so is being gay. If you vote for someone who believes in abortion and gay rights then God will judge you for it. The preacher does need and has every right to tell his congregation this.

Posted by: matt on Sep 9, 2008 at 01:13 AM
This is easily solved, start taxing his church

Posted by: Margie on Sep 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM
What is the purpose of a church-winning souls or politics? Wonder how many thousands of people would be saved if pastors used the time to get people saved instead of preaching politics? Wonder when hypocritical evangelical pastors will realize they are driving people away from church? How you vote is between you and God! As a Christian I want to hear God’s word not a pastors political beliefs! POLITICS SHOULD NOT BE IN THE CHURCH!

Posted by: Dave on Sep 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM
The doctrine of church and state separation was designed specifically to prevent America from becoming the type of theocratic government that our founding fathers came here to avoid. Remember that Great Britain was a theocracy at the time of the American Revolution. Also remember that Iraq is also a theocracy.

Posted by: Lane on Sep 8, 2008 at 11:07 PM
Separation of church and state is a wonderful gift from our founding fathers wisdom about human nature. Pull the tax exemption from any church that allows politics to be promoted in the church. If my pastor tried to promote a canditate from the pulpit, I would leave the church because I go for worship, not to be part of a political action committee.

Posted by: Cris on Sep 8, 2008 at 10:47 PM
I wonder how Rev. Franklin Murphy would feel if no one had challenged the segregation laws? Would that have been political anarchy?

Posted by: Lori on Sep 8, 2008 at 10:21 PM
The founding fathers were very clear about seperation of church and state. If pasters want to become political, then take away their tax exempt status. one more reason to vote Obama/Biden. If more conservative judges are appointed to the supreme court, individual freedoms are at risk. We have to have balance. Wake up America! Our very democracy is at stake here.

Posted by: Chris on Sep 8, 2008 at 10:18 PM
Put your money where your mouth is. If you feel so strongly that you should be able to endorse candidates, simply give up your tax-exempt status. Oh wait, then business would suffer. If you pastors were truly principled people and God's opinion on politics was that crucial to peoples' souls, then you would sacrifice a little of Caesar's money for that benefit.

Posted by: RoaneCo. on Sep 8, 2008 at 09:50 PM
Just pull the church's tax-exempt status and let them campaign for whatever party they want. We sure could use the money to make up for a small portion of what their man Bush has cost this country over the last eight years.

Posted by: Rod on Sep 8, 2008 at 09:30 PM
I totally back religous freedom. But our country was founded upon, and based upon, a seperation of church and state. The members and supporter$$ of these people need to speak up. They don't want the IRS to start looking into their coffers, especially the new "mega churches". If they start taxing them, we may be able to eleminate the national debt.......

Posted by: Ashley Decker on Sep 8, 2008 at 09:28 PM
I think they should be able to talk about politics as long as they pay taxes. They should pay taxes anyways. I am tired of listen to christians whining all the time.

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The Yell: Comments for the Week of 1/4
  • Posted By: AriCheers to Rob-I feel ya!
  • Posted By: joeI have worked for companies all over this nation and have had to take drug tests. Why should teachers be exempt from this practice? It is now common to be randomly tested(and I have been) so what makes a teacher any different than a steel worker. I can say proudly that I passed but I have seen those who didn't. They chose to use drugs and lost their jobs I didn't.
  • Posted By: KatyAs a teacher, I have no problem being randomly drug tested...as long as you agree to drug test the parents who enter the doors of my school as well. Most teachers deal with students who are exposed to/use more drugs and alcohol than any of the teachers. If these students or parents who are using drugs (and are not drug tested) enter our schools, the safety of the teachers and students are at risk. Since children spend more time with them, let's randomly drug test PARENTS, too!!!
  • Posted By: stephenWhy the heavy emphasis ont he damage to property and life Israel is doing . Where was the media uproar for years that Hamas was rocketing Israel irespective of innocent israelis.. Hamas is actualykilling their own citizens by firing rockets from UN schools and residents. Why does UN allow Hamas to use facilities for attacking Israel, then complain when Israel responds to protect their territory and citizens. Israel targets military targets, respons to from whence rockets or gun fire comes. What would we fire at if Huntington was attacked?Why does the media not put bla,e where balame belongs, and give moral support to the aggreived.What would America do if attacked? to whom would we listen? Russia, Saudi Arabia,Iran?.Media get REAL! Who has given Hamas and the Palestinians millions with which they could buy weapons---American taxpayers money!
  • Posted By: RobertAlthough I feel for the employees that lost their positions at Cabell Huntington Hospital, at least more nurses were hired. I recently had a relative in the cardiac unit at Kings Daughters, in Ashland, and I was told that the nursing staff had been cut back and that no overtime was being given. This seems to be a drastic cut in patient care for a facility that spends thousands advertising that they are in the top 5% of cardiac hospitals in the country. I would be willing to wager that the Cleveland Clinic has not cut hours of those giving patient care.
  • Posted By: BoydIf the state's budget is doing so well, why don't we use some of this money to help towns and cities in the state who are in trouble with their budget, or will this just become another pay raise for politicians?
  • Posted By: RobWhy does everyone have to be so into using the term "racist" and have that kind of attitude. I know what my heritage is and who my ancestors were but you want to know what I consider myself? I AM AN AMERICAN! I was born and raised in this country and that's how I feel it should be. Born here, raised here.....then by God you are an American. Not an African American, not an Asian American etc. etc. You are an AMERICAN!
  • Posted By: ChrisTo Ex-Officer: I agree with you 100% about the pay of police dept and the drug testing. I was formerly involved with the BCPD and had multiple ride alongs with the BCSO. I am probably one of their biggest critics due to having watch some of the bad side of the department for a long time. I wish that I could tell everything that I have seen officers do,which would put most of them behind bars or they'll lose their sheild, But retalliation is bad in our area. To the cops that do their job and do it with the best intentions, I proud of you and don't mean any disrespect. To the ones who I personally watch being more currupt then the "badguys" here,your day will be coming.
  • Posted By: PabloTeachers aren't the only ones underpaid. Law enforcement officers are underpaid also. And I'd like to speak about them. For example, I'm sure any parent would sacrifice their live for thier children. And several may give thier live to save their spouse. A few individuals may even do it for a close friend. But, I only know of 3 types of beings who will sacrifice thier lives for complete strangers; indeed even for people who hate them. The first would be our men and women in our armed forces. The second would be our law enforcement officers. And of course, third would be our Savior, Jesus Christ. Others are killed in the line of their employment, but not in order to save a complete stranger. Everytime a cop puts on his/her uniform, they can be a target for anyone upset about something. Even though it doesn't involve the cop personally, that very cop will give his life to save yours when a problem arises. We need to give our cops not only a wage, but a living wage and a great big THANKS.
  • Posted By: CraigIf what I am hearing is correct that Kanawha County teachers accepted a pay raise in return for submitting to drug testing, and then sued successfully so they do not have to be subject to testing, then why shouldn't we the taxpayers demand they return the raise?
  • Posted By: teresaracist lmao i am one cherokee,german,irish,german,and who knows what else TIRED of hearing of racist comments u are either GOOD OR BAD k no skin color needed just evil or NOT
  • Posted By: Ex-OfficerI agree with Robert 100% I worked in law enforcement and loved the job but try to rise a family on less than 10.00 an hour (out of that pay for your own duty gear and gun). I believe that all public safety workers should be drug tested but i also believe that they should be paid for the job that they do. Not many people understand what a public safty worker goes through. Would you put your life on the line for this kind of pay? Remember the saying that you get what you pay for. I see this in several new officers in my area. Don't get me wrong there are still very good officers in law enforcement. Something really needs to be done about the low pay for these jobs.
  • Posted By: GarlandWhat's the difference between teachers and other workers(coal mineers, bus drivers, state employees,etc.)? Teachers aren't any better are they?
  • Posted By: This is not a comment, but I would like comments on it please. What do you think of Poca High School? Racist or not?
  • Posted By: RobertWe the people, through our own self centeredness and apathy, have allowed our teachers and police officials to be some of the most underpaid people in the United States. We are trusting our childrens education and our public safety to the very people that are some of the most underpaid profesions in the U.S.. If I could change this, I would. However, I do believe that these people should be randomly drug tested. I work in the construction industry and I have no problem being drug tested. I have nothing to hide. I also believe that any person who is intrusted with the safety of others should have nothing to hide. This includes plitical officials up to and including the president.